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The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats

edited March 2015 in Poker Chat
It sounds like basic satellite strategy, not cheating.

If they all have 8k for instance, then it would be silly for them to go to war with each other and risk busting, but if you have 2k then of course they are going to constantly put maximum pressure on you because satellites are all about survival so you are going to be reluctant to call a shove therefore it's easy risk free chips for them.

Comments

  • edited March 2015

    I removed this post as it was found offensive. Please accept my apologies.

  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    It sounds like basic satellite strategy, not cheating. If they all have 8k for instance, then it would be silly for them to go to war with each other and risk busting, but if you have 2k then of course they are going to constantly put maximum pressure on you because satellites are all about survival so you are going to be reluctant to call a shove therefore it's easy risk free chips for them.
    Posted by Lambert180

    everyone on the table had around 7k and blinds were going up at this point. one other player had 20 odd thousand. there was 5 of us including myself. I happened to be on the big stacks right it always went fold fold fold fold blah blah you know how it goes and then a shove on me. I do alright in tourneys, I don't cash in them all but maybe around half I play in and I have never left a game feeling cheated as much as I did last night. I was on a table where the other four were clearly pals and knew what they was doing. This isn't poker in my book it is definitely cheating or even bingo at the worst.
     
  • edited March 2015
    hi merrion i was on at table and dont like being called a cheat. i play satallight alot and have never cheated. satlights play alot different then normally tournaments and can seem one or two are attacking u blinds in affect that is not true. and can honestly say i do not know many of the others on the table i even hd to cheack that u was on my table last night. my overall opinion on u matter is u are wrong and bubbling satalights are not nice, but don't call players cheats without hard evidenced. if u have hand history when u think i was cheating please put up hand number and i will explain why i did this and even copy and paste my hand history to reassure u.
  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    hi merrion i was on at table and dont like being called a cheat. i play satallight alot and have never cheated. satlights play alot different then normally tournaments and can seem one or two are attacking u blinds in affect that is not true. and can honestly say i do not know many of the others on the table i even hd to cheack that u was on my table last night. my overall opinion on u matter is u are wrong and bubbling satalights are not nice, but don't call players cheats without hard evidenced. if u have hand history when u think i was cheating please put up hand number and i will explain why i did this and even copy and paste my hand history to reassure u.
    Posted by rspca12

    Im sorry mate but I know the truth can be harsh sometimes, I don't want to seem like a moaner or someone that cant take been beat because I can. I did feel cheated. Look at it from my perspective. Im the big blind, (at which point you was the small) it would go call, then raise, you would fold forcing my move which would obviously have been all in or fold at that stage. the player on my left would call to fold as he was the major stack of the table and clearly wasn't going to bust. All hands after got folded back round until it was my big blind where the same method of conning me out of my chips began this happened for the last four or five hands we played. I went from 7th to bubble boy by this method. If it was fair and proper play someone would have bubbled before me. Maybe it wasn't as much you cos you was to my right and the small blind when I was the big, I know you do well in most tourneys and that doesn't happen by being a cheat clearly your a decent player but last night I went to bed with a very sour taste in my mouth 
  • edited March 2015
    When it gets to the bubble stage of a satellite, the key is to be the first to put all your chips in and to only do so if you absolutely need to. (ie. you are the shortest stack or v.close (and will be if you don't put your chips in soon) 

    With lots of people being on 7k and blinds at a high stage, everyone is at risk and can't afford to sit around and wait because the blinds will quickly eat them up. When you are a short stack, it actually makes great sense to shove into a big stack when they are on the blinds - they just cannot call without a monster (even more so in SB). Even if they have a hand like AK or JJ - they risk losing 7k of their 20k stack and suddenly they're on 13k. If they take another gamble and lose they'll be very short. But with 20k, they can coast into the money without doing anything.

    You were just unfortunate that you had the big stack on your right and people were shoving into you when the big stack was in the blinds. 
  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats : everyone on the table had around 7k and blinds were going up at this point. one other player had 20 odd thousand. there was 5 of us including myself. I happened to be on the big stacks right it always went fold fold fold fold blah blah you know how it goes and then a shove on me. I do alright in tourneys, I don't cash in them all but maybe around half I play in and I have never left a game feeling cheated as much as I did last night. I was on a table where the other four were clearly pals and knew what they was doing. This isn't poker in my book it is definitely cheating or even bingo at the worst.  
    Posted by merrion88
    I wouldn't worry about it you seem to be doing fine. 
  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    When it gets to the bubble stage of a satellite, the key is to be the first to put all your chips in and to only do so if you absolutely need to. (ie. you are the shortest stack or v.close (and will be if you don't put your chips in soon)  With lots of people being on 7k and blinds at a high stage, everyone is at risk and can't afford to sit around and wait because the blinds will quickly eat them up. When you are a short stack, it actually makes great sense to shove into a big stack when they are on the blinds - they just cannot call without a monster (even more so in SB). Even if they have a hand like AK or JJ - they risk losing 7k of their 20k stack and suddenly they're on 13k. If they take another gamble and lose they'll be very short. But with 20k, they can coast into the money without doing anything. You were just unfortunate that you had the big stack on your right and people were shoving into you when the big stack was in the blinds. 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Your probably right, I would have put my chips in if I felt I had a strong enough hand and did do when I was holding one, its hard to explain if im honest but something just didn't seam all fair play.
  • edited March 2015
    Yeah, try and post some actual hand histories to show what you mean. 
  • edited March 2015
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    8812564402015-03-03 22:30:251500.00
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    8812558132015-03-03 22:29:203965.00
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    • fi33er won 3965.00
    8812552072015-03-03 22:28:1710031.25
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    • 123jack won 2590.00 with a Ace high
    • fi33er won 2590.00 with a Ace high
    8812550262015-03-03 22:27:568100.00
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    7850.00
    • merrion88 won 8100.00
    8812548272015-03-03 22:27:35875.00
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    250.00
    • 123jack won 875.00
    8812545672015-03-03 22:27:081250.00
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    • 123jack won 1250.00
    8812542022015-03-03 22:26:291900.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 1900.00
    8812538162015-03-03 22:25:484445.00
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    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 4445.00
    8812536632015-03-03 22:25:32700.00
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    100.00
    • 123jack won 700.00
    8812533602015-03-03 22:25:021100.00
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    8812531512015-03-03 22:24:38600.00
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    • Fitzer69 won 600.00
    8812529602015-03-03 22:24:20750.00
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    • jonjo75 won 750.00
    8812528052015-03-03 22:24:043745.00
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    8812521142015-03-03 22:22:551500.00
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    100.00
    • 123jack won 1500.00 with a Pair of 8s
    8812517742015-03-03 22:22:22800.00
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    • merrion88 won 800.00
    8812514912015-03-03 22:21:55700.00
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    • jonjo75 won 700.00
    8812511712015-03-03 22:21:22900.00
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    • fi33er won 900.00
    8812506302015-03-03 22:20:312760.00
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    • A
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    • 3
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    1280.00
    • merrion88 won 2760.00 with a Two Pairs, Aces and 3s
    8812503972015-03-03 22:20:08700.00
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    0.00
    • 123jack won 700.00
    8812500032015-03-03 22:19:30750.00
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    100.00
    • jonjo75 won 750.00
    8812497412015-03-03 22:19:04300.00
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    200.00
    • merrion88 won 300.00
    8812493932015-03-03 22:18:28600.00
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    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 600.00
    8812489312015-03-03 22:17:433640.00
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    0.00
    • fi33er won 3640.00 with a Two Pairs, 9s and 7s
    8812486182015-03-03 22:17:141770.00
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    • fi33er won 1770.00
    8812483832015-03-03 22:16:52300.00
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    100.00
    • fi33er won 300.00
    8812481572015-03-03 22:16:31300.00
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    200.00
    • merrion88 won 300.00
    8812477852015-03-03 22:15:55525.00
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    0.00
    • fi33er won 525.00
    8812475562015-03-03 22:15:33225.00
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    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 225.00
    8812471802015-03-03 22:14:561855.00
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    • GELDY won 1855.00
    8812465872015-03-03 22:13:58450.00
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    300.00
    • merrion88 won 450.00
    8812461202015-03-03 22:13:13225.00
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    • merrion88 won 225.00
    8812455652015-03-03 22:12:20600.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 600.00
    8812453372015-03-03 22:11:581480.00
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 1480.00
    8812445962015-03-03 22:10:486315.00
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    • 10
    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 6315.00
    8812443762015-03-03 22:10:29225.00
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    75.00
    • fi33er won 225.00
    8812439182015-03-03 22:09:465190.00
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    • 8
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    150.00
    • Fitzer69 won 4335.00 with a Pair of Aces
    8812434112015-03-03 22:08:59525.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 525.00
    8812429072015-03-03 22:08:12675.00
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    450.00
    • merrion88 won 675.00
    8812423642015-03-03 22:07:21525.00
    • 5
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    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 525.00
    8812419552015-03-03 22:06:42525.00
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    • 8
    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 525.00
    8812416682015-03-03 22:06:141705.00
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    75.00
    • GELDY won 1705.00
    8812411952015-03-03 22:05:26150.00
    • A
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    100.00
    • merrion88 won 150.00
    8812409182015-03-03 22:04:59350.00
    • 3
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    0.00
    • foldUfairy won 350.00
    8812400582015-03-03 22:03:331490.00
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    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 1490.00 with a Pair of Kings
    8812391542015-03-03 22:02:05250.00
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    0.00
    • Fitzer69 won 250.00 with a Pair of 3s
    8812385372015-03-03 22:01:04600.00
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    • 6
    0.00
    • GELDY won 600.00
    8812360532015-03-03 21:54:48300.00
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    • 6
    200.00
    • merrion88 won 300.00
    8812356872015-03-03 21:54:10350.00
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    100.00
    • foldUfairy won 350.00
    8812351622015-03-03 21:53:18437.50
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    0.00
    • fi33er won 437.50
    8812349602015-03-03 21:52:57150.00
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    • foldUfairy won 150.00
    8812344222015-03-03 21:52:02950.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 950.00
    8812339382015-03-03 21:51:155720.00
    • 6
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    • 2
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    50.00
    • jonjo75 won 5720.00 with a Two Pairs, Aces and 2s
    8812335842015-03-03 21:50:41120.00
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    • 5
    80.00
    • merrion88 won 120.00
    8812332092015-03-03 21:50:05240.00
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    0.00
    • chicknMelt won 240.00
    8812326162015-03-03 21:49:072350.00
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 2350.00
    8812324462015-03-03 21:48:50120.00
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 120.00
    8812322102015-03-03 21:48:28330.00
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    40.00
    • GELDY won 330.00
    8812317902015-03-03 21:47:48520.00
    • 10
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    • 7
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    • 8
    160.00
    • chicknMelt won 520.00
    8812315232015-03-03 21:47:21120.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 120.00
    8812312372015-03-03 21:46:53280.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 280.00
    8812307042015-03-03 21:46:037130.00
    • A
    • A
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    • 9
    • 9
    • 6
    • 8
    2070.00
    • merrion88 won 4180.00 with a Two Pairs, Aces and 9s
    8812305632015-03-03 21:45:48120.00
    • 3
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 120.00
    8812296792015-03-03 21:44:241000.00
    • 8
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    • 9
    • 10
    • J
    40.00
    • jonjo75 won 1000.00 with a Two Pairs, Jacks and 9s
    8812294262015-03-03 21:44:01120.00
    • K
    • 5
    80.00
    • merrion88 won 120.00
    8812290672015-03-03 21:43:28360.00
    • 2
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    0.00
    • fi33er won 360.00
    8812287692015-03-03 21:42:59320.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 320.00
    8812285112015-03-03 21:42:34280.00
    • A
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    160.00
    • merrion88 won 280.00
    8812282982015-03-03 21:42:12300.00
    • 10
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    40.00
    • jonjo75 won 300.00
    8812270552015-03-03 21:40:138967.50
    • 7
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    • 3
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    • 10
    195.00
    • jonjo75 won 7765.00 with a Flush to the Ace
    8812262362015-03-03 21:38:591500.00
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    0.00
    • anisman1 won 1500.00 with a Three 9s
    8812257212015-03-03 21:38:10390.00
    • 2
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    120.00
    • anisman1 won 390.00
    8812254742015-03-03 21:37:46240.00
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    0.00
    • jonjo75 won 240.00
    8812252612015-03-03 21:37:24330.00
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    • jonjo75 won 330.00
    8812243962015-03-03 21:36:031020.00
    • 5
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    • 9
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    480.00
    • merrion88 won 1020.00 with a Two Pairs, Jacks and 5s
    8812241362015-03-03 21:35:38330.00
    • 3
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    60.00
    • jonjo75 won 330.00
    8812236452015-03-03 21:34:53180.00
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    0.00
    • anisman1 won 180.00
    8812234932015-03-03 21:34:4090.00
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    0.00
    • anisman1 won 90.00
    8812232832015-03-03 21:34:20210.00
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    8812225062015-03-03 21:33:11630.00
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    0.00
    • anisman1 won 630.00
    8812217522015-03-03 21:32:031417.50
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    30.00
    • fi33er won 1417.50
    8812215582015-03-03 21:31:4790.00
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    60.00
    • merrion88 won 90.00
    8812212892015-03-03 21:31:20220.00
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    • jonjo75 won 220.00
    8812206902015-03-03 21:30:273917.50
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 2920.00 with a Two Pairs, Aces and 5s
    8812204502015-03-03 21:30:04150.00
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 150.00
    8812202332015-03-03 21:29:45175.00
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    0.00
    • anisman1 won 175.00
    8812195542015-03-03 21:28:391612.50
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    25.00
    • anisman1 won 1612.50
    8812193882015-03-03 21:28:22225.00
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    50.00
    • fi33er won 225.00
    8812190972015-03-03 21:27:57225.00
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    0.00
    • GELDY won 225.00
    8812180602015-03-03 21:26:203887.50
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    0.00
    • anisman1 won 3887.50
    8812169222015-03-03 21:24:331375.00
    • K
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    • 3
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    • 9
    • 4
    • Q
    550.00
    • merrion88 won 1375.00 with a Pair of Queens
    8812166362015-03-03 21:24:06175.00
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    • 8
    100.00
    • merrion88 won 175.00
    8812162732015-03-03 21:23:32<
  • edited March 2015
    yep
    sounds like standard bubble play. as a shorter stack you should feel as if everyone is ganging up to bully you. It isn't cheating it isn't collusion it is just standard bubble strategy.

    and as the vegas sats are attracting the best players you will feel this even more. 
  • edited March 2015
    And to highlight how extreme and different bubble sat play is from normal poker just remember that in this situation you actually fold AA pre flop if there is already an all in in front of you from a bigger or similar stack unless your situation is desperate. 
  • edited March 2015
    Someone needs to brush up on sat strategy I think.
  • edited March 2015
    while im nearly 1000% sure your talking nonsense if you really do feel people are cheating or colluding against you then it is better to go to customer care and ask them to investigate it than to come on a forum and accuse people of cheating.

    My advice to you as a player who claims to cash in 50% of MTT's would be to play another one, judging by percentages you should win the next one :)
  • edited March 2015
    I also was on your table and you are talking complete ****.
    Not only are you completely wrong about the tactics used but you are even wrong about the money also.
    The £61 wasnt removed there was 9 seats with £61 for 10th with around 1 min of late reg left, someone then regged which made it a straight 10 seats.
  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats : Im sorry mate but I know the truth can be harsh sometimes, I don't want to seem like a moaner or someone that cant take been beat because I can. I did feel cheated. Look at it from my perspective. Im the big blind, (at which point you was the small) it would go call, then raise, you would fold forcing my move which would obviously have been all in or fold at that stage. the player on my left would call to fold as he was the major stack of the table and clearly wasn't going to bust. All hands after got folded back round until it was my big blind where the same method of conning me out of my chips began this happened for the last four or five hands we played. I went from 7th to bubble boy by this method. If it was fair and proper play someone would have bubbled before me. Maybe it wasn't as much you cos you was to my right and the small blind when I was the big, I know you do well in most tourneys and that doesn't happen by being a cheat clearly your a decent player but last night I went to bed with a very sour taste in my mouth 
    Posted by merrion88

    This just makes no sense at all so i am guessing you are quite new to poker and dont really understand that sattalites play completely different to other forms of poker and you do things on the bubble of sats that you would never do normally.
    If you would like to explain yourself a bit better that makes some sort of sense then I would like to hear how you think I or others cheated you.
  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats : Your probably right, I would have put my chips in if I felt I had a strong enough hand and did do when I was holding one, its hard to explain if im honest but something just didn't seam all fair play.
    Posted by merrion88
     
    This is why you didnt go through not because you were cheated.
  • edited March 2015
    I played also in the same tournament and got through, albeit on the "other" final table to merrion.  Absolutely standard satellite play on my table, but when you are short stack it can certainly feel like you're being bullied - howver this is very different from cheating / colluding.

    Whilst I sympathise, awful being bubble boy at times, I would strongly advise against calling people cheats, doesn't go down well at all...

    Best of luck

    Matt
  • edited March 2015
    In Response to The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    I think its unfair and basically cheating. Last night I was playing in the 3.2k vegas quarter it got down to the last two tables and everyone had roughly an even stack barring one on my table. Now I was on a table with regulars but I shall not use names and there way of playing was to cheat. I tell you how they did it they would pass a couple of k to one another using the big stack and every time it comes to your blind they shove all in to obviously steal your blind. Not only that but somehow the cash prize for the seat bubble boy which happened to yes be me was removed. Im not bothered that I came 11th and was one away from my semi final seat or that the cash prize for 11th of £60.14 was removed I am bothered in people cheating though. So if your reading this and played in the vegas quarter last night and had me on your final table your all cheats! its easy to say well you should call when they constantly shove on you cos yes they probably have nothing either but who in there right mind would call 4 8's and 10 2's it made my game a misery and to be honest has put me off playing in the tourneys, I find its the the same group of people that always seem to win in tourneys or be in the bubble and its because they cheat when it gets to the 600 1200 blind stage up.
    Posted by merrion88
    I wasn't in the sat so am not sure who was in it but no doubt I will have played with or may in fact be friends with some of the guys involved. Calling people cheats is a big deal and if you actually think that's the case then please contact customer care as we don't want cheats on sky. However I think your just misinformed about satellite strategy and are frustrated.

    Lets look at the bolded bit. The thing is you shouldn't call light as its for your tournament life. Our opponent can make a profitable shove with any 2 cards as our calling range is light and they can of course have a hand. This can mean its very frustrating if we are getting bashed up by a bigger stack but all they are doing is playing their stack correctly. In a satellite when we have a big sat and effectively a seat locked we can use our stack to put opponents to the ultimate test.

    The same people win in sats/MTTS because they study hard and understand strategy.
  • edited March 2015
    You have the hump, get over it neebs. I have played in 100s of sats like you and most of us run of the mill players. I have been bubbled out of loads of high roller / ukpc final tables, due to me shoving with mince or not shoving with reasonable hands and watch someone double up with hands I had beat. And the blinds then get me panicking.
        And it is the same guys, because they are better/more experienced, no other reason,. But I have have won a few with luck / stupidty / bravery and lager.
  • edited March 2015
    Sat strategy and in particular end game strategy is something i've worked really hard on the last few months for many reasons.  What you describe is not cheating but just the current way/mindset that goes on when down to the business end of a satelite.  I would recommend you brush up on the excellent free resources available on the interent and also rescind your comments regarding the aforementioned players "cheating". Good luck in your development and play here on Sky.
  • edited March 2015
    I have tried to post a few hands but they come out scrambled so i will just relate one as to show that your play was just basically bad.
    The blinds are 125/250 you have 7500 , you limp , the button who has a 10bb stack raises  4x to 1000,
    the blinds fold and you flat call. The pot is 2375 .You then check fold a 773 flop to the inevitable 6bb/1500 shove.
    This is just 1 example of your play.
    Another thing I noticed through looking at hand history for 15 mins is that when you were in the BB the button limped 8 or 9 times in a row and everytime you checked then check folded to a small bet. The button was obv limping with any 2 and if you are not prepared to make a stand then you only have yourself to blame for being bullied.
    I have never cheated and really resent being called one. Please take a look at your own play and try and learn a bit before slandering people.
  • edited March 2015

    Right then ok. Please accept my apologies in regards to the cheat comment. I didn't mean or want to offend anyone that I was playing with.

    I have read all comments and taken everything on board.

  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    Right then ok. Please accept my apologies in regards to the cheat comment. I didn't mean or want to offend anyone that I was playing with. I have read all comments and taken everything on board.
    Posted by merrion88

    hi merrion88 i did find u comments hurtfully because as a poker player them comments can not only affect my character and the way people think about me. also will stop people playing against me dry up action etc and give the sky satalight less runners. But on the other end it takes a big man to accept he was wrong and i respect that and hold no grudges. if u see me on a table say hello mate il defo say hello back. gl at the tables 

    chris cunliffe

  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats : hi  merrion88  i did find u comments hurtfully because as a poker player them comments can not only affect my character and the way people think about me. also will stop people playing against me dry up action etc and give the sky satalight less runners. But on the other end it takes a big man to accept he was wrong and i respect that and hold no grudges. if u see me on a table say hello mate il defo say hello back. gl at the tables  chris cunliffe
    Posted by rspca12

    class 


  • edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: The Vegas Quarter Bullies and Cheats:
    Right then ok. Please accept my apologies in regards to the cheat comment. I didn't mean or want to offend anyone that I was playing with. I have read all comments and taken everything on board.
    Posted by merrion88
    Nice One Mate!!

    Yes, players involved are respected Members of Sky Community.
    Great Posts them, & All, glad all cleared up!

    GL merrion88!
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