should i be going larger when i make the raise?

craigcu12

when doing a raise i've noticed myself frequently being unsucessful with attempts to get the full stack in.

when looking at this spot, i would have liked to go larger on the turn but having seen he size OTF, i'm now thinking a pot size bet would make it just too obvious.

what would be the recommended size i make my raise on the flop that would still give villians a reasonable enough stack to fold OTT but make most people forced to call a jam OTR?

rabat	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£17.40
craigcu12	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£9.75
	Your hole cards	10 A
x	Raise		£0.35	£0.50	£9.65
MADJOSH	Fold
lillie	Fold
royalhell	Fold
rabat	Fold
craigcu12	Call		£0.25	£0.75	£9.50
Flop
		6 7 4
craigcu12	Check
x	Bet		£0.56	£1.31	£9.09
craigcu12	Raise		£1.52	£2.83	£7.98
x	Call		£0.96	£3.79	£8.13
Turn
		2
craigcu12	Bet		£1.90	£5.69	£6.08
x	Fold

mrleemr1

I would prefer £1.75...

It means our river shove is gonna be around 70-80% then

mrleemr1

Also Craig can I advise you on auto-top up.

Ive played a table with you recently and noticed you had something like 60 big blinds and there were lots of people at the table with more who were playing very lose. 

CraigSG1

I think £1.50 - £1.75 is fine.

I think we can check the turn though as it makes our hand look weak. A c/r then lead on the turn is almost always a strong hand and a c/r followed by a check is often a weak hand/draw. 

reeler

In Response to should i be going larger when i make the raise?:

when doing a raise i've noticed myself frequently being unsucessful with attempts to get the full stack in. when looking at this spot, i would have liked to go larger on the turn but having seen he size OTF, i'm now thinking a pot size bet would make it just too obvious. what would be the recommended size i make my raise on the flop that would still give villians a reasonable enough stack to fold OTT but make most people forced to call a jam OTR? rabat Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £17.40 craigcu12 Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £9.75   Your hole cards 10 A       x Raise   £0.35 £0.50 £9.65 MADJOSH Fold         lillie Fold         royalhell Fold         rabat Fold         craigcu12 Call   £0.25 £0.75 £9.50 Flop     6 7 4       craigcu12 Check         x Bet   £0.56 £1.31 £9.09 craigcu12 Raise   £1.52 £2.83 £7.98 x Call   £0.96 £3.79 £8.13 Turn     2       craigcu12 Bet   £1.90 £5.69 £6.08 x Fold        
Posted by craigcu12

u should have checked the turn then he thinks your scared of flush giving him a chance to steal 

mrleemr1

In Response to Re: should i be going larger when i make the raise?:

In Response to should i be going larger when i make the raise? : u should have checked the turn then he thinks your scared of flush giving him a chance to steal 
Posted by reeler

All his two pairs and sets call on turn, checking we lose value.

His one pair hands can still calls

He can float us on flop

With straight draws which have now become flush draws too.

He can have straights that will likely pay off one more street.

If we check to him his bluffs are all semi bluffs and don't have a great deal of need to bed, there is more equity in the hand by checking as what hand do we raise flop with and give up turn with, the answer is pretty low.

Always bet this turn no matter what

craigcu12

In Response to Re: should i be going larger when i make the raise?:

I think £1.50 - £1.75 is fine. I think we can check the turn though as it makes our hand look weak. A c/r then lead on the turn is almost always a strong hand and a c/r followed by a check is often a weak hand/draw. 
Posted by CraigSG1

The thing is i'm going to lose value from any KK+Kh or QQ+Qh, as you say the Ch/R OTF is going to represent strength and knowing he won't get me to fold, the chance of him bluffing is very slim. What he could do is still call a straight draw and who knows if a 4th H hits the river maybe he'll bluff. If it's a set, KK, QQwith H, a flush that he himself has hit or the outside chance he's got a straight, he'll still maybe make an attempt to call.

shakinaces

If we're putting him on KK/QQ with a heart then don't we want to go smaller with the raise to give him the odds to call? Can go as little as £1 on the turn and give him the chance to call - it also maybe makes us look a little weaker and could get paid on a non-heart river (on a heart river we can still bet big and get a sigh-call lots of the time).

Realistically an UTG open is not going to have hit 2 pair on this board - if we bet turn then only overpairs or 66/77 (much less so 44/22 imo) are going to carry on calling... so when we have those crushed make it as easy as possible for them to put more chips in!

Our c/r on the flop is often going to be a set or 2pr (which are ahead of an overpair) or flush draw (which is now ahead) so we're going to struggle to get paid much more unless oppo is super-stationy.... so CraigSG's suggestion to c/c turn also seems a good line... would have to be oppo dependent as to whether we lead river or take the risk of c/c that as well...

hhyftrftdr

I wouldn't check the turn. Looks way too fishy to check raise that flop and then check the turn. Plus I don't think if we check, he's gonna take a stab. People just rarely try and rep stuff at that level. Sometimes they just don't have a hand they can continue with!

I think there are merits to just calling on the flop.

Lambert180

I don't understand, it's set up perfectly here.

When he calls the turn, the pot will be £7.59 and you only got £6 behind. It's set up perfect, what's the problem? If he doesn't have a hand to call with, then he doesn't have a hand to acll with, ul.

F_Ivanovic

Don't bluff-catch with the nuts.... if you want to bluff-catch, do so with weaker flushes or sets where there is less value in a bet. 

craigcu12

In Response to Re: should i be going larger when i make the raise?:

I don't understand, it's set up perfectly here. When he calls the turn, the pot will be £7.59 and you only got £6 behind. It's set up perfect, what's the problem? If he doesn't have a hand to call with, then he doesn't have a hand to acll with, ul.
Posted by Lambert180

I'm not bothered if the fold the turn, It's when they do call me i'm starting to wonder now if I could go more larger on the turn itself and if he folds, he folds.

If i've done the raise pre and seen people calling my own cbet on flops it will frequently see me doing a simular size bet on the turn during those hands and really the range during those occassion will be even wider than these.

AMYBR

£1.95 - £2.12 for me.  It has alot to do with image though.  

Question really is how much do you bet when you brick after the c/r, being oop with air.  Whatever that bet would be is your bet.

mrleemr1

In Response to Re: should i be going larger when i make the raise?:

£1.95 - £2.12 for me.  It has alot to do with image though.   Question really is how much do you bet when you brick after the c/r, being oop with air.  Whatever that bet would be is your bet.
Posted by AMYBR

The reason why not to raise to this much mate is because after we bet turn our river shove is going

To be to small. 

When making decisions make sure you have a plan for each street, and the plan for later streets has to coincide with the decisions made on previous streets. So if we raise to £2. There will be £4.5 or w.e or it is in pot. Then with stack sizes being like £7 now and the board being wet, given our raise flop, we want to be betting around 70% of pot. This around £3 making the pot now about £10.5 and effective stacks only £4 which is far to low to make this play. If we are deeper stacked there is more of an arguement for it

AMYBR

That would be a reason and a fair one  Its cash NL10, We are going to get action from all the same hands.  W dont need to overthink spots and get bogged down in the minutia.

Tourney maybe.  Cash, always add 5-10% to what you think your sizing ought to be, increase your ROI bu 5-10%, simplez.

Our plan is to get the money in, 3bb sizing difference is ridiculously myeh.  We wont b/f, we get action from the same ranges.  

I go bigger, regardless of whether we improve

Lambert180

In Response to Re: should i be going larger when i make the raise?:

In Response to Re: should i be going larger when i make the raise? : I'm not bothered if the fold the turn, It's when they do call me i'm starting to wonder now if I could go more larger on the turn itself and if he folds, he folds. If i've done the raise pre and seen people calling my own cbet on flops it will frequently see me doing a simular size bet on the turn during those hands and really the range during those occassion will be even wider than these.
Posted by craigcu12

Why do you want to change your turn sizing though? You've set it up perfect here for like an 80% pot river jam. It's ideal.