What was the correct move.

S7N

Please be kind as this is the first one I have ever added

Did I play this right, or should I just check the turn.

Thanks

Hand History #884698200 (20:54 12/03/2015)Vegas 3.2 Qtr

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
JJJOHNSON	Small blind		10.00	10.00	2150.00
jakally	Big blind		20.00	30.00	3000.00
	Your hole cards	10 10
chicknMelt	Fold
barber180	Fold
TyroneBhoy	Raise		60.00	90.00	2870.00
S7N	Call		60.00	150.00	3790.00
JJJOHNSON	Call		50.00	200.00	2100.00
jakally	Fold
Flop
		6 9 J
JJJOHNSON	Check
TyroneBhoy	Bet		100.00	300.00	2770.00
S7N	Call		100.00	400.00	3690.00
JJJOHNSON	Raise		350.00	750.00	1750.00
TyroneBhoy	Call		250.00	1000.00	2520.00
S7N	Call		250.00	1250.00	3440.00
Turn
		5
JJJOHNSON	Check
TyroneBhoy	Check
S7N	Bet		580.00	1830.00	2860.00
JJJOHNSON	Call		580.00	2410.00	1170.00
TyroneBhoy	Fold
River
		2
JJJOHNSON	Check
S7N	Check
JJJOHNSON	Show	J A
S7N	Muck	10 10
JJJOHNSON	Win	Pair of Jacks	2410.00		3580.00

Schubert

The check-raise on the flop should have set some alarm bells off, Johnson wouldn't have done that out of position and first to act with only a flush draw. Check-raising generally gives off the aura someone has a hand too. It's hard to get away from pocket pairs especially second pair when you beat everything other than the Jacks/overpairs/flush. Your bet on the turn repping the flush was a credible play after two checks in front of you, it was less than half pot though and if you were trying to take it down then I would be tempted to go for about 3/4 pot. Overall it was unlucky, not to get the rep of the flush but also to lose out with your 10's but as Doyle Brunson says in the Poker After Dark intro: "That's Poker, folks."

S7N

Ahhh,

Thanks alot Schubert.

Schubert

The only real issue was the size of the bet to be honest, if you were looking for value then it was a good bet, however with only second pair on a flush board you need to make a bigger bet if you want to take it down. As we know Johnson wouldn't check-raise with only a flush draw and with you on the button if the bet was 3/4-pot you probably would have had a chance to take it down. Ultimately though he had top pair with an overcard so was more than entitled to call a bet that was 1/2 pot as he was getting great equitty. Just make sure you pay attention to the pot size and the skill is to get the correct amount so you can scoop the pot up, best of luck in your future games

hhyftrftdr

3bet pre flop. Calling is gonna invite in the blinds, and we'll often see flops like this that make things a bit of a guessing game when we go multi way.

As played, and with it being a sat, we should probably just give up on the flop to the check raise. I assume we haven't 3bet pre to play a smaller pot and not get carried away unless we smash it?

When we bet the turn, what was the plan for the river? And why did we bet the turn?

Nuggy962

I think i find a fold on the flop. When a guy reraises on that flop and gets a call behind, in a 3 way pot even if 10's are good there is so many turn cards you do not want to see. even a 10 could be trouble for you.

It's all about putting your opponents on ranges, pre flop got an open raiser who is 3x, you call, SB good odds to call with suited connectors, low pocket pairs and hands that flop well like KQ, QJ.

Flop is wet, meaning hits a lot of opponents range and is draw heavy. Initial raiser c bets, call here is ok, but when the SB check reraises and initial raiser calls, alarm bells go off and second pair now seems week.  It is this point you need to decide if you are happy to call off a potential large bet on turn and maybe risk majority of stack on river.

As played you call

Turn brings in flush draw. And also the straight. 

What could the SB play this way? Well set would play check reraise and May pot control on the turn if worried about a flush on board, made straight may also check for same reason. 

If made nut flush may try slow down hoping someone bluffs at pot.  I assume the bet you make is turning hand into a bluff? If that is the case and want to rep flush turn bet sizing ok, too big looks like a bluff, I go to approx 700.  But single stab against decent standard player probably calls set / straight to one bet. Mistake here IMO is not continuing story and making the river bet too as then is their tourney life on line. 

S7N

Yes if I am honest I guess I did start to turn this into a bluff, I lost the bottle and give up.

I dont really bluff that often, I need to be a better player to do so...

To summerise :

This was the worst I had played in a good while, I am not really sure what happened, I did all the things I wouldn't normally do and basically went into a bingo mode.
It resulted in me donating chips and just getting betted out pots.

I understand what you have written and see why and where I could of turned this into a bluff repping either the flush or the straight. makes more sense too!
In reality I should of just given up post flop.

I entered another tourney straight after and was equally as poor, think I will look in to some more tips etc, I think as I get into it more it gets more frustrating when you know and recognise your making silly mistakes.

Thanks for all the responses, they really do help.

The love of poker huh.

shakinaces

When blinds are this low is there more value to not 3-betting 10s pre and playing for set value - leave us in a situation where we can win a stack or lose the minimum, rather than set us up to possibly lose bigger / maybe only win small?

As such we'd obviously then give up on this flop after the c/r and save the creative plays for another day.

BigHawk89

Fold the flop after the action you aren't gonna have the best hand alot. As played on the turn don't like betting, if you do its with the intention of turning your hand into a bluff on the river and bombing it.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: What was the correct move.:

When blinds are this low is there more value to not 3-betting 10s pre and playing for set value - leave us in a situation where we can win a stack or lose the minimum, rather than set us up to possibly lose bigger / maybe only win small? As such we'd obviously then give up on this flop after the c/r and save the creative plays for another day.
Posted by shakinaces

Meh I think its close. I don't mind just calling and taking a flop with a modest pot, but then seems silly to take off on a J high board, as per OP. Kinda defeats the object of calling /> 3betting pre.

I think with position, facing a cut off raise and playing pretty deep with a strong hand, I'd be slightly more inclined to 3bet. Think this forces the blinds to play pretty honestly against us as well.

If you keep winning small pots in a sat, you're laughing all the way to the seat.......probably

jordz16

on the button after a raiser and a caller i think a 3bet is best...  on the flop i think you have to fold to the reraise, fair enough about 30% of the time you will have the best hand but in terms of equity you wont ever be far ahead and there will be a lot better spots to pick up chips.   once you have called the flop reraise then never bet that turn unless you are going to bomb the river because, no better hands are folding and no worse hands are calling.

Benchmark

Hmm.. What hands are beating you after the turn, that were happy with the pre flop and flop betting.

AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 99, 66, A+ any diamonds, 78 suited.

I think the issue is not betting big enough to scare off the AJ unsuited. However, if the villain was holding AJ suited, that would be a different matter. I think the key thigs to consider are what would he be betting with. If he was chasing a flush draw, he's made it. The only other hands that make sense are 66, 99 or a J (top pair). Unfortunately for you, I think an overcard would've seen him off.

Mind you, it's easy when you see the cards. He could've been a nutter and had anything.

beefheart1

I think we need to be more cautious here following the check raise. The 580 bet is an error in my view, and shouldn't we also be raising it up pre-flop to take control?

sharkcj

I think calling pre is absolutely fine, however its is a straight forward fold on the flop from the re-raise.
 
Even if you believe he is raising light (diamond draw) then you have to fold the turn.