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Sky poker tv vs MTT numbers
So
Day one, no tv and the main event of the week.
The (not so) super roller scrapes guarntee (which is 5k less than last weeks) and is down 30 runners on previous week.
Mini roller very mini at 63 people less.
Probably be 2k and 12k for next week!
Hope I am wrongf but not a good start. No events this weekend to reduce numbers that much.
Comments
I'm not sure there is an enormous amount of science in your conclusions there Nuggy. It sort of feels from the tone of your post that you don't really hope you are wrong.
I would say that I have a fair amount of experience of monitoring numbers of players in online poker and the things that effect them. During the time I owned my own site I could watch in real time the number of players active, whether they were playing cash or Mtts, and I was a total addict of monitoring those numbers and trying to buck some trends that it just wasn't possible to buck. I also spent a large amount of my time on Pokerscout seeing how the various sites and networks were performing.
The no1 thing that you just could not change was that online poker is a seasonal business. The hardcore of regular players will play the whole year round but they may play slightly less during school holidays, half-term and when the nights become less dark. The recreational occasional players will play a lot more in the winter than the summer. You could throw a lot of money at the issue by doing extra promotions in the spring and summer months but basically you could not reverse the seasons.
On top of that some amazing things that you might not think about could change the figures. A new series of Downton, a big football match like El Classico, the weather on that day, Mother's Day, things happening in the news.
Sky Bet can also have a big effect on the number of players...if all the favourites win at football then the punters have a much bigger balance (as a collection) and they play more poker.
I'm sure the show not being there was sad for lots of people for a first Sunday without it but I'm not certain the effect on the numbers is necessarily caused by it.
I would predict the numbers will be much lower on July 1st and much higher on October 1st than they were yesterday but neither of those things will have much to do with the presence of C861.
Just to add to Mr Ambo's points, "time of month" (careful now...) is very much part of what Gaming sites expect & understand in their metrics, & I'm sure Mr Ambo will confirm this. Activity will rise & fall significantly relative to paydays, & the payment of Reward Points money into accounts. The 22nd of any month is a bad date relative to both.
What's done is done though so now the channel has gone I'd suggest those of us that genuinely want the site to thrive and that community aspect to continue now need to stop moaning and get on with supporting the site more than ever by playing these tournaments to try and make sure they do make their guarantees and by keeping that community feel going by being active both on this forum and in the chatbox. There were many regs doing this while railing the Roller last night and it really does enhance the enjoyment of playing on the site so lets hope that continues.
P.S. Speaking of Community if anyone in the Oxfordshire area would like to play live but doesn't know anywhere to go then PM me - there are a couple of regular games held at pubs/social clubs that I can give you the details of and would be great to get anyone from Sky Poker there.
Amazingly good Post, Matt8. (imo).
I popped on the site last night to see what was going off, & it was great to see all the railing.
The Community is something that, really, the players own. If they want it to thrive, it will, if they don't, it wont. Nobody can point fingers, we all have the same chance to help build, sustain, & be part of a Community. Some will want it to fail, we can see that, others will work together to make it better.
All the best.
Rainman397
23/3/2014
20K Roller 217 entrants
2K Mini roller 233 entrants
4K Bounty 94 runners
3K Bounty 337 runners
2K Speed Bounty 43 runners
22/3/2015 equivalents
15K Roller 152 entrants
2.5K Mini Roller 260 entrants
3K Bounty 65 entrants
3K Bounty 308 entrants
1.5K Speed Bounty 44 runners
However it should be noted there are two new events on the schedule in 2015 that didn't exist in 2014;
£1.5K/£55 Freezeout 31 entrants
£5K/£33 Bounty 193 entrants
If you factor these events in its hard to argue that numbers are down. The decline in the Roller and £55 Bounty Hunter can easily be explained by people switching to the new Sunday £33 Bounty Hunter, always a popular evening event here.
Youi also have to factor in the Vegas Semi, imo.
There was no Vegas Semi, or Vegas anything else last year. There was over £7,000 of entries in that last night. (YOY, the Roller fell £6,500 shy of last year). Swings & swongs, much the same thing. That needs factoring in to any numbers or comparisions. The Business, however, take a wider, longer view.
We could look at last week's Vegas semi, but that's a ridic small sample size. For the record, last week it made 34 runners & 6 seats, & this week it made 35 runners & 7 seats. It did not exist last year, so that all adds to the numbers but I'm not sure how you reasonably equate for it in number comparisions. It may, or may not, have taken numbers from the Roller, maybe some did one or the other, but not both. I'm just guessing, I don't know.
We are, of course, just discussing MTT's here. MTT's are around, at a guess, one sixth of total traffic, same for SNG's, & the rest, two thirds, cash. Roughly. So we need to keep it all in perspective.
Nonody will learn anything from looking at one night, though I'm aware you know that, & I'm not suggesting you would do so.
I don’t normally post but feel strongly that we are all on the same side here and must pull together. I’m new to poker – started from nothing 2 years ago and everything is a learning experience for me.
Channel 861 was great. It is the reason I started and it taught me a massive amount. I must say TK and Neil in particular gave very good guidance. I’m really keen to learn more. I hope the site continues to focus on this.
The community is great. I was in Newcastle and had a great time interacting with everyone and putting faces to the aliases. This is something else that needs to be guarded carefully.
I hope there is news soon about where we are going. I know it is business but uncertainty will cause people to walk and it will be harder to get them back.
But enough of self interest. This is just a hobby for me and most on the site. To the team running things it is their lively hood and I sincerely hope all goes well for their point of view.
Many thanks for everything so far and I hope there is much more to come.
Donald
Just want to respond to the very good part I have enboldened. Absolutely YES.
For the guys responsible for running Sky Poker it is their loving, their day job. They care deeply, of course they do. (Me too, 861 has been a huge part of my life for 8.5 years, as it has been for Lord Smirk, Mrs Silly Sausage & all the others).
We are all a little sad that 861 is not around any more, but it was a great freeroll for all of us, & it served it's purpose in the early years. Quite how they justified it continuing "as was" for as long as they did, I've no idea, I used to dread "budget & forecast" time every year, for fear of a hovering axe.
Reading some of the feedback, from understandably upset players, it's like "I wonder if Sky Poker will survive?". I can get they are disappointed, thats perfectly reasonable. But it's not the end of the world as we know it.
Survive? The plans are not to survive, but to grow, make it better, add some of the things it badly needs, we all know it is far from perfect, or a complete product so far. I promise this - it will not stand still, if it does, the team will have failed. A year from now you'll be - I hope - very happy with progress.
I sit in the oddest of seats right now. On the one hand I'm reading all this "nooo, the site will die" stuff, & on the other hand, my computer is red hot with e-Mails from Upstairs about the exciting plans & challenges for the newly independent SB&G, it's like e-Mail city today, it's party-time up there, everyone is fired up at how they can now move the business forward quicker & better as an independent. It'll make a huge difference in the medium to long term, but it won't happen overnight.
For starters, a huge recruitment drive has begun, & Sky Poker have now got 3 extra developers, dedicated to Sky Poker & not shared with other arms of the site. Personally, if I had to choose between that and 861, I know what I'd plump for - make this place better, give it more oomph & zing for everyone, not just those that watched 861.
We have a clean piece of paper with Sky Poker TV, too. Given what has been explained, how would you - or anyone else reading this - like to see that develop? We're like an elephant here, all ears.
We all should be a bit sad that we've lost 861, yes yes, but we can't look backwards, & we did well to have it for so long.
The Community? That'll be even more important now, & I'm pleased to say (others may disagree....) but I've been asked to help get the Community buzzing again. I may fail, so be it, but I'll not fail for lack of enthusiasm & effort, but I need the loyal Community regulars to help me. If they don't want to, fine, but I'll be doing all I can. I try to post "feel good" threads or posts every day, but I'm not King Canute, if everyone wants to grumble, I'll struggle.
So same question - how would you re-invigorate or strengthen the Community we have here? And before you say "SPT", I've already discussed it with Mr Top Suit, & I'll keep discussing it. We actually got into detailed proposals 2 weeks ago, but I can't quite get it over the line. Truth is, it has very little business merit, but they were good for a very small % - & it was a very small % - of the player base. VLV returned, to huge acclaim, (35 packages, WHAT?) maybe SPT will.
One thing I have to add, is that the staff at Head Office are not being shown much respect for knowing their business. They have access to zigabytes of data upon which they can base their judgements, plans & goals, & they are all very bright, enthusiastic & motivated to make all of SB&G a better & bigger place. You & me & all the other players don't see that stuff, so we have to be careful before we players throw numbers around willy nilly.
I am extremely optimistic & confident Sky Poker will now be able to be the product we all want it to be, where we want to go play our poker. Only time will tell.
Neil & I "thinking out loud" during a cash game or SNG??
Nobody will believe this, but it's true. Exactly 30 minutes ago Mr Serious Suit & I discussed EXACTLY that. And you might see it, on Sky Sports or You Tube, sooner than you think.
Twictch? Yup, that's on the list. I'm a bit nervous about starting, tbh, I'm not exactly Mr Exciting to watch, but I've been tasked to do it & I will. As a site, we have already decided to do some organised Twitch stuff. Luckily, not just me....
I do think that, as a Business, we could maybe communicate better on here, but that is being addressed. However, a lot of stuff is private, commercially sensitive, so we need to be reasonable in that regard.
We'll get there.
i personally couldnt disagree more with this post, the part that i have highlighted are in my opinion the only things we are paying for everything else was and still is an extra bonus.
I'm sorry that you took offence Nuggy but I don't really understand why I would have to know you or have met you at all to come to the conclusion that your post was more than merely a casual observation that the numbers were slightly down in one tournament and that this was directly caused by the TV channel no longer existing. You used the word "scraped" to grudgingly accept the guarantee was met, you said "(not so) super roller" to describe a tournament that got a pretty large number of people to pay £100 to enter and you call the mini very mini. You also used and ! in describing how they'll "probably" reduce the guarantees by enormous amounts.
Like I say, I don't want to have a row, but I think that it would be reasonable to come to the conclusion that you were trying to use this pretty small sample to prove your point, which appeared to be that the end of the TV channel had caused the lower numbers.
I totally understand that the 861 channel was a very much loved part of the Sky Poker experience. I enjoyed it very much myself and can clearly remember the various phases of it's development and the different presenters that came and went. I was a viewer long before I ever appeared on the show. I very much wish everyone who was involved in the shows well. Some are still going to be involved with making poker content and some will go on to other things.
I think we do have to accept though that there are legal and commercial reasons why it wasn't possible for the channel to survive and we have to move on.
In response to Geldy, I'm sure everyone at Sky Poker is very much aware how well loved the TV channel was. Sky Poker is very lucky though. Despite only being 20% owned by BskyB they have been granted the opportunity to fill a nice two hour slot on Sky Sport 4 every Tuesday and there seems to be a good appetite for poker from the owners of Challenge TV as well as their viewers. I'm not 100% sure of the exact viewing figures but my understanding is that we are talking at least ten times as many people watching these shows as were watching 861, so hopefully that should attract lots of new players to the site. Maybe the freedom to make some different kinds of poker programmes and to not have to go down the telly-shopping road will attract different kinds of viewers. Again it's hard to predict how these things will work out, but I do think the assumption that they can only ever be a disaster for the poker site is overly negative.
I do also think it's being a little negative and pessimistic to immediately draw the conclusion that the new owners want to "bin poker". I would say they have made a pretty big investment and one of the reasons for that is because the poker part of Sky Betting and Gaming is doing very well.
I'm not sure if you really believe that there is a chance that everyone stops playing poker and the whole business collapses simply because of 861 no longer existing and that the "powers that be" will then change their mind and bring the channel back. I would say that sentence involves a bunch of things that are all less than 1% to happen, happening at once.
Again, for the avoidance of doubt, I'll repeat...Everyone very much loved C861 but there are many complex reasons both commercial and legal why it can no longer exist.
What I am 100% certain of is that there are some very smart people guiding the business along and that is why CVC decided to spend such a large amount to purchase a chunk of a very successful company. It may be that commercially sensitive information cannot always be given out and it may be that some plans are currently being developed and discussed but to assume there are no plans at all is a mistake.
I would say it's an exciting time for Sky Poker and you can count the number of sites who are thinking that right now on two or less fingers.
And nice post Mr Channing.
emotions possibly running high on both sides, and far too early to make judgements that's for sure - but again, that needs to be on both sides.
you have got a difficult balancing act at the moment tk/channing, just try not to come across too patronising for the sake of being positive. sometimes people have to be allowed to grieve and sound off.