last nights mini B/H

HENDRIK62

Late regged the mini and felt the need to try and spin up a little......not a name I recognised, no reads, felt the bet on flop screamed flush draw, turn was a blank and the 1/2 pot bet confirmed (in my mind anyway) what I thought. Got it right this time, but did I play this correctly or just get lucky?

 History #890233415 (21:33 27/03/2015)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
POKERTREV	Small blind		50.00	50.00	7046.25
VVBOBVV	Big blind		100.00	150.00	4216.25
	Your hole cards	10 10
HENDRIK62	Raise		200.00	350.00	2355.00
Nosey_p	Call		200.00	550.00	8280.00
chrisx2525	Fold
villian	Call		200.00	750.00	9913.75
POKERTREV	Call		150.00	900.00	6896.25
VVBOBVV	Call		100.00	1000.00	4116.25
Flop
		6 2 K
POKERTREV	Check
VVBOBVV	Check
HENDRIK62	Check
Nosey_p	Check
villian	Bet		400.00	1400.00	9513.75
POKERTREV	Fold
VVBOBVV	Fold
HENDRIK62	Call		400.00	1800.00	1955.00
Nosey_p	Fold
Turn
		8
HENDRIK62	Check
villian	Bet		900.00	2700.00	8613.75
HENDRIK62	Raise		1900.00	4600.00	55.00
villian	Raise		2000.00	6600.00	6613.75
HENDRIK62	All-in		55.00	6655.00	0.00
villian	Unmatched bet		945.00	5710.00	7558.75
HENDRIK62	Show	10 10
villian	Show	9 A
River
		4
HENDRIK62	Win	Pair of 10s	5710.00		5710.00

Pr

BorinLoner

Why did the bet on the flop scream of a flush draw? (other than that being a hand you could beat?)

Check-fold the flop. You've seen that flop five-way and there will be a King or better out there more often than not. Think about the range you're likely up against and your equity against that range: 

Against any King you have about 9% equity. Against a flush draw with one overcard, you have less than 60% equity, which drops below 50% if they have 2 overs.

So the best case scenario isn't great and the worst case is pretty horrible. (...and you still have one player to act behind you)

Very occasionally the villain will be taking a stab with a random 6 or a pocket pair below yours, but five-handed that's not really worth considering.

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:

Why did the bet on the flop scream of a flush draw? (other than that being a hand you could beat?) Check-fold the flop. You've seen that flop five-way and there will be a King or better out there more often than not. Think about the range you're likely up against and your equity against that range:  Against any King you have about 9% equity. Against a flush draw with one overcard, you have less than 60% equity, which drops below 50% if they have 2 overs. So the best case scenario isn't great and the worst case is pretty horrible. (...and you still have one player to act behind you) Very occasionally the villain will be taking a stab with a random 6 or a pocket pair below yours, but five-handed that's not really worth considering.
Posted by BorinLoner

Hi Borin,

Thanks a lot for taking time out to reply. regarding the points I have highlighted.

I felt his bet on the flop (less than 1/2 pot) was weak for someone holding a strong pair on a flush board

If anyone else had called or CR ed me I would have given up.
I was interested in the board texture and betting more than my own hole cards

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:
I think you might have just been lucky this time. When he bets half pot it isn't unthinkable that he doesn't have a king, if you have no reads on the player you don't know how they play certain hands. The fact you have the ten of spades means there's slightly less combinations of flush draws too. In a multiway 5way pot I would expect somebody to have a king a reasonable amount of the time as people are going to call a flop with hands like KQ, KJ, KT, maybe even K9 (if they're loose) whereas I'd expect them to be more inclined to raise good pocket pairs and AK, AQ, sometimes AJ . Even if you think your against a flush draw your probably 50:50 to win, i think a fold is the play on the flop.

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H : I think you might have just been lucky this time. When he bets half pot it isn't unthinkable that he doesn't have a king, if you have no reads on the player you don't know how they play certain hands. The fact you have the ten of spades means there's slightly less combinations of flush draws too. In a multiway 5way pot I would expect somebody to have a king a reasonable amount of the time as people are going to call a flop with hands like KQ, KJ, KT, maybe even K9 (if they're loose) whereas I'd expect them to be more inclined to raise good pocket pairs and AK, AQ, sometimes AJ . Even if you think your against a flush draw your probably 50:50 to win, i think a fold is the play on the flop.
Posted by FeelGroggy

Thank you Groggy, appreciate your thoughts, I need to plug these leaks.

F_Ivanovic

Yeah as others have pointed out I wouldn't read anything into the bet-size being a flush draw over a K. Just under HP on the flop could be many hands - K9 through to KJ for example that don't feel strong enough to bet 60%-70% but want to thin the field and see what happens. It's also feasible he could have KsXs and is very strong and trying to entice action from worse hands.

Also people play quite honest in 5 way pots - they don't usually get aggressive and put in bets with flush draws unless they have a strong flush draw (to the nuts or pair + combo) for instance - and as has been said, we're only a small fave or flipping vs these hands.

Flop call isn't terrible by any means but a fold is probably better and helps avoid turn spots where you end up putting in chips when most of the time you won't be good. 

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:

Yeah as others have pointed out I wouldn't read anything into the bet-size being a flush draw over a K. Just under HP on the flop could be many hands - K9 through to KJ for example that don't feel strong enough to bet 60%-70% but want to thin the field and see what happens. It's also feasible he could have KsXs and is very strong and trying to entice action from worse hands. Also people play quite honest in 5 way pots - they don't usually get aggressive and put in bets with flush draws unless they have a strong flush draw (to the nuts or pair + combo) for instance - and as has been said, we're only a small fave or flipping vs these hands. Flop call isn't terrible by any means but a fold is probably better and helps avoid turn spots where you end up putting in chips when most of the time you won't be good. 
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Thanks a lot for the advice, the more I watch and listen to good players the more I realise how little I know. Its great fun learning and i really appreciate all the feedback.

GREGHOGG

Personally with 23 big blinds and looking for a spin up, I'd want just to get this in pre if possible, or make it a HU pot.  So from ep, I'd be making it a 3x raise. 

People will probably hate this, but in a low stakes BH like this having late regged, I would sometimes just open jam pre and let people make bad calls. Or if we run into a hand/lose a flip, so be it. People call so light in BH's so 10s are good a large amount of the time if called by a biggish stack who is just hunting. 

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:

Personally with 23 big blinds and looking for a spin up, I'd want just to get this in pre if possible, or make it a HU pot.  So from ep, I'd be making it a 3x raise.  People will probably hate this, but in a low stakes BH like this having late regged, I would sometimes just open jam pre and let people make bad calls. Or if we run into a hand/lose a flip, so be it. People call so light in BH's so 10s are good a large amount of the time if called by a biggish stack who is just hunting. 
Posted by GREGHOGG

Hi Gregg, I was fully intent on trying to get my chips in here, and spinning up so perhaps as you suggest raising bigger or simply shipping would have served the purpose, rather than the way I played it.

nice to share table at Newcastle and VWP in the UKOPS last night.

F_Ivanovic

Greg speaks a lot of sense, didn't see stack-sizes but I really hate min-r in these small stakes tournaments with a hand like tens. Either limp in and hope to flop a set/play small ball multi-way (or jam over a raise), 3x or jam. Too often if you min-r you'll end up in this scenario which just isn't very profitable at this stack depth. I think I like jamming best especially if there's a big stack that's collected a few bounties as they'll likely gamble very wide.

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:

Greg speaks a lot of sense, didn't see stack-sizes but I really hate min-r in these small stakes tournaments with a hand like tens. Either limp in and hope to flop a set/play small ball multi-way (or jam over a raise), 3x or jam. Too often if you min-r you'll end up in this scenario which just isn't very profitable at this stack depth. I think I like jamming best especially if there's a big stack that's collected a few bounties as they'll likely gamble very wide.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Played another £5 B/H tonight and decided to do an experiment. I open shoved all my hands 10's and above even with nearly 25bb's......got called almost every time, and with a really wide range. 

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H:

In Response to Re: last nights mini B/H : Played another £5 B/H tonight and decided to do an experiment. I open shoved all my hands 10's and above even with nearly 25bb's......got called almost every time, and with a really wide range. 
Posted by HENDRIK62

In the right mtts on sky this is a way to literally print money. Overplaying big hands has always been profitable on Sky but obviously against better players this will not work!

Good luck experimenting, but don't get frustrated when your big hands don't hold, because this will sometimes happen! A way round this, multi table a lot of low stake bh's at once and build up a stack/ft in one of them- pays for the others and you might even get a nice profit at the end of the day/week etc 

Basically, in fields of fishy bounty hunters play your strong hands aggressively and don't ever bluff until you get a strong feel for the players. Some people will say don't bluff at all, but if there's an obvious spot after observing the players then go for it. I  personally find defending my big blind to a sb limp/raise is often a good way to accumulate chips but you have to be careful doing this against very fishy opponants.  

Good Luck