How to deal with bad beats?

FeelGroggy

 I usually play lower stakes tourneys where the winner usually gets £200-300 (more if it's a big field) and can bust out late and not be bothered, but recently I've been experimenting with some main events where the winner can get £2000. Tonight I went deep and lost a few big hands as favorite (both standard spots) and was dumped out late and it left me feeling really gutted. I guess the questions i want to ask are as follows.

Should I stick to stakes at which I'm not emotionally affected by the outcome and avoid the bigger events? (even if I think I can be profitable playing them)

How do you deal with bad beats or busting out of a tourney late?

I'm not looking for a 'sky poker is rigged' type of response so please don't post them

rainman397

Good morning Groggy.
Play tournaments within your means, and the loss doesnt hurt.
The £2.20 @2.20 deepstack is an ideal tournament.
All the best.
Rainman397

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

Good morning Groggy. Play tournaments within your means, and the loss doesnt hurt. The £2.20 @2.20 deepstack is an ideal tournament. All the best. Rainman397
Posted by rainman397

I play poker for both fun and as a source of income and I'm fine playing £11 and £22 games, its just when big money is on the line where the loss hurts. Maybe just need to get used to the near misses as they're gonna happen much more often! Thanks for the response

hhyftrftdr

In Response to How to deal with bad beats?:

 I usually play lower stakes tourneys where the winner usually gets £200-300 (more if it's a big field) and can bust out late and not be bothered, but recently I've been experimenting with some main events where the winner can get £2000. Tonight I went deep and lost a few big hands as favorite (both standard spots) and was dumped out late and it left me feeling really gutted. I guess the questions i want to ask are as follows. Should I stick to stakes at which I'm not emotionally affected by the outcome and avoid the bigger events? (even if I think I can be profitable playing them) How do you deal with bad beats or busting out of a tourney late? I'm not looking for a 'sky poker is rigged' type of response so please don't post them
Posted by FeelGroggy

Meh, it sucks, and there can be no getting away from that. I'm sure every tournament player on Sky can pinpoint a time where they felt totally bummed out after exiting an MTT.

I'm not sure there is a foolproof way of overcoming it, other than getting back on the saddle and doing it all again. I think a certain mental toughness is required, and also just accepting what happened, happened (esp if its a standard spot and unavoidable), this can be easier said than done though.

FWIW, the one spot that still brings memories back for me is in the last 12 of the Bigger $22 on Stars, after playing for 12 hours and getting down to the final dozen, to then be eliminated in 12th with 88 on an 8 J Q board vs KK when he spiked runner runner flush was a hard one to take. The $750 prize money felt like no consolation when there was close to $20k up top for just 11 more places. Still weighs on my mind now as you can see! I think bouncebackability is an underestimated skill, and I tip my hat to the people who grind MTTs every week.

LmfaoAllin

Yeah i think its always going to be disappointing when you dont win a tourney, particularly if you got it in good and lost after playing for hours and near the ft.

But as this will prob happen a lot its something we have to learn to take in our stride, just keep plugging away, luck does run both ways and if you put in the volume im sure you will get there.

Obv we need to play within our means, but sounds like you are often cashing and its just the mental aspect which is troubling you.

Wp in main tonight, funny you had a deep run after our convo earlier ; )

Glg,l tomorrow is another day

FeelGroggy

5In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

Yeah i think its always going to be disappointing when you dont win a tourney, particularly if you got it in good and lost after playing for hours and near the ft. But as this will prob happen a lot its something we have to learn to take in our stride, just keep plugging away, luck does run both ways and if you put in the volume im sure you will get there. Obv we need to play within our means, but sounds like you are often cashing and its just the mental aspect which is troubling you. Wp in main tonight, funny you had a deep run after our convo earlier ; ) Glg,l tomorrow is another day
Posted by LmfaoAllin

I couldn't stay away from you tonight, every bloody tourney I played you were there! Yeah I think that's pretty solid advice. Play buy ins within your budget and just make the best decisions you can, until some day it goes your way and you hit that big score. Think it's more frustrating when I'm going through a sticky breakeven patch, need to just think long term and be happy I got it in as favorite when I don't hold. Be more concerned with mistakes and outcomes I can control

Tikay10

Hi Groggy,

It's poker, & it will always happen, just when we think we've cracked it, a run of beats hits us.

It's just something that you are going to have to come to terms with, get used to, because it is always going to happen.

If the stakes or amount of money are part of the problem, I'd suggest play smaller stakes. I've moved down to smaller stakes the last few years, & I can honestly say, I've never enjoyed poker more. I get all the fun without any pain. Can't beat that.

You can also try reading The Mental Game of Poker, by Barry Carter & Jared Tendler.
 



 

Tikay10

There are two Blogs on Sky Poker by Barry Carter, based upon The Mental Game of Poker.

The first is HERE

And the second is HERE

Tikay10

Couple more tips.

We take a beat, there is nothing to be gained by looking back & thinking what might have been. Nothing. It's a "leak".

Think of it like the weather. It rained yesterday, & ruined our planned day out, or barbecue. Is there any point in getting upset about it? NO. Because nothing can change it. It's just a negative thought which can never achieve anything. Ever. It's better to look forward, than back.  

Tikay10

...and one or two more.

When playing Online, I play as many tables as I can manage. This gives me more action, less variance, & no time to dwell on what might have been.

If I am 1 tabling, I have time to think about a beat. Once I get 3 or more tables on the go, I am too busy playing to entertain negative thoughts.
 
The outcome of a single hand is NOT going to have any bearing on my ability, or long term profitably. We have to play tens of thousands of hands to get the true outcome. After say, 10,000 hands, the outcome of a single beat will make no difference. Don't forget we inflict beats on others, too - they all balance out in the long run.
 
When I'm playing a session, I'm only really interested in where I stand after the session ends. That's all that matters. At the month end, as long as I've had more winning sessions than losing sessions, I'm OK. 

Beats DO hurt, if you let them, yes. They are supposed to. Just move on, that was the last hand, now deal me the next hand.
 
Hope one or two of those tips help.       

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats? : I play poker for both fun and as a source of income and I'm fine playing £11 and £22 games, its just when big money is on the line where the loss hurts. Maybe just need to get used to the near misses as they're gonna happen much more often! Thanks for the response
Posted by FeelGroggy

Apologies in advance as I ramble.....

I think the paradox is that as anyone's game improves, the inevitable bad beats will probably happen more often (the more times you get in ahead, the more times a loss will involve some form of suck out). 

Couple this with the fact you are probably deeper in the tournament and it is happening more often (the best in any endeavour tend to also 'lose' more times than the 'journeymen' - hate that word but struggling to find a replacement-,  golf is a great example, apart from winning in record numbers Nicklaus also finished second more than any other player)

Look on here and you see the top MTT players bubbling more than anyone.

I personally think it should hurt somewhat when you lose (regardless of stake)otherwise there is no point, I hate when people say 'it's only a couple of quid' to justify odd plays. 

It may be that the expected return is more of an issue than the actual stake money, but satellites can also be a great way in to bigger buy ins whilst continuing to play and earn at stakes that are comfortable.

There is no easy way to deal with the disappointment, but the book TK has mentioned is a great help and booze is often underrated ;-)

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

FWIW, the one spot that still brings memories back for me is in the last 12 of the Bigger $22 on Stars, after playing for 12 hours and getting down to the final dozen, to then be eliminated in 12th with 88 on an 8 J Q board vs KK when he spiked runner runner flush was a hard one to take. The $750 prize money felt like no consolation when there was close to $20k up top for just 11 more places. Still weighs on my mind now as you can see! I think bouncebackability is an underestimated skill, and I tip my hat to the people who grind MTTs every week.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

That's a pretty sickening one, like mine but on a bigger scale! I guess when you're entering these big field tournaments then you have to be ready for that as an eventuality. I feel fine about losing since I've slept but I don't forsee myself getting over one like that too quickly.

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

Thanks for all the replies Tikay

You can also try reading The Mental Game of Poker, by Barry Carter & Jared Tendler.    
Posted by Tikay10

I've been recommended to read this before and forgot to, but I'll definitely give it a read for sure. I'll give the articles a read too.

 Think of it like the weather. It rained yesterday, & ruined our planned day out, or barbecue. Is there any point in getting upset about it? NO. Because nothing can change it.

I like that comparison. It sounds ridiculous letting the weather emotionally affect you and the same applies to poker, especially when you played a hand as it should be played.

Thanks for the other advice too, when things aren't going well at the tables i sometimes forget to think 'long-term', where If I played like that I'd make money over time. It'll be useful to remember that

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

I personally think it should hurt somewhat when you lose (regardless of stake)otherwise there is no point, I hate when people say 'it's only a couple of quid' to justify odd plays.

I love it when people do that, it's a great way to make money  I try and play my A game regardless of stakes

 

It may be that the expected return is more of an issue than the actual stake money

i think that sums it up pretty well.

booze is often underrated ;-)

I'll try drowning my sorrows next time it happens, although I'm not sure that would  help with the other games I'm in. Actually last time I played drunk I won a tournament and came 2nd in another, maybe I should try that before I start XD

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats?:

In Response to Re: How to deal with bad beats? : That's a pretty sickening one, like mine but on a bigger scale! I guess when you're entering these big field tournaments then you have to be ready for that as an eventuality. I feel fine about losing since I've slept but I don't forsee myself getting over one like that too quickly.
Posted by FeelGroggy

Ha, it was back in August so I really should have moved on by now

It was super disappointing for me cos I rarely play on Stars, so the chance of another deep run in a 4,500 runner field just isn't likely, whereas the people who grind on there at least will have more opportunities due to their volume/skill.

It's amazing what a sleep can do for your mindset, you go to bed p1ssed off but wake in a more reflective mood, with the emotional sting taken away somewhat.

I'll level with you Groggy, I don't remember posting last night

GILLS69

                  Hi Groogy,
                                 I would stick 2 the stakes ur comfy with n when uve cashed a few of them-have a crack at a bigger one.Dont let it get 2 u as u will suck out other players n vice-versa 4 all the time u play.Just shake it off n don't think about it anymore.Live 4 ur next tourney.
                                                 Gl buddy
                                                             Jim

Lambert180

I said this to someone else recently...

The things with MTTs is, you don't win many, maybe a couple of % of the ones you enter. So let's say you only win 2% of MTTs, that means you're going to bust out at some point of 98% of the games you play.

Now the better you get, the less likely you're going to be outplayed by someone or make a mistake, so chances are, most of the time you're going to go out either by being coolered, someone getting lucky, losing a flip, or taking a bad beat.

And we know you're gonna bust 98% of comps so you are gonna feel like you got unlucky in probably >90% of MTTs.

It makes me think abuot it in a better way anyway, but everyone's different.  The fact is, tournament variance can be tough going and there's no getting around it. There's only 365 main events a year, even the big grinders might only play 250 of them, it's vv easy to do that and not win 1 in a year.

FCHD

The only way to deal with beats, be they bad or otherwise, is to move on.

I've just gone out of a MTT with pocket aces losing to J9 when the board came 2-8-7-5-6. I got my chips in good and that's all I can do. Next time I am such a big favourite I'll probably win, but there's the chance I will lose again. That's the game.

GILLS69

                                                  HI,
                                                      You will always run into these but sometimes you ll be the benefitiary and vice-versa
                                                                                                 That's why we love this game eh?
                                                                                                                  Be assured u will be on the better end a lot and you ll have to take the odd puker.
                                                      Put it in the file marked Bin and don't dwell on it m8.
                                                                                                                                  Run better my friend,
                                                                                                                                                                Jim

FeelGroggy

Thanks for the responses everyone. I did actually manage to take a main down last month after finishing around 9th more times than i can remember :-) Currently on my worst downswing as a player around -£850 in the last month but will take comfort that my fortunes will turn around sometime, poker can be cruel but it can also be amazing and that's why we love it! Whenever we get bad beat and coolered we should nod our heads in acceptance and pat ourselves on the back for making a +EV play- its when we play a hand badly regardless of winning or losing it where we should be concerned!

For what its worth I've improved at being able to handle busting out late but still need to work on my mental game. I know that downswings are inevitable but I still get upset when they happen even though I expect them to happen, maybe I'm just crazy lol