My Favourite Story of WSOP 2015 so far

Sky_Dan

I would have him shot....then the cashiers sacked.*

*my view may be influenced by the fact that Jason is in my WSOP Fantasy team

Sky_Dan

OK so it's not technically the WSOP but it did happen in Vegas a few days ago.

A player bought into a $125 at the Aria but ended up getting seated at a $25,000 High Roller event. He even busted a few pros including Jason Mercier before staff noticed!

So what would you do if you found yourself in this position? Keep quiet? It's likely the only chance a lot of people would get to share a table with some of their poker idols. Interesting debate. I initially thought I would but I'm an honest boy - I wouldn't have the cajones.

It reminds me of that guy who put on an England shirt and managed to get his photo taken with the team before being escorted off the pitch.

***UPDATE*** Now reading that the guy might be in jail. A hell of a story.

NChanning

 Tricky one for the Aria to deal with in a country where so many people are on the phone to a lawyer so quickly.

 I heard they have offered the guys that he bust $3000 and up to $5000 in compensation. I guess once they do that they have admitted their mistake and culpability and a lawyer might say go for $25,000.

 The small tournament was cancelled the next day when they had another $25,000. I haven't heard if the guy was banned for life from all MGM properties, (Bellagio, Mirage, Luxor, MGM Grand, Mandalay Bay, New York New York, Excalibur and Aria plus some more I probably forgot), but I bet he was.

 If you knew that was going to happen would you still play? 

Nannypat66

Knowing me I would probably not even notice I was at the wrong table lol. Id have been too busy looking at the poker idols but then I am easily impressed ha ha.
Seriously though is it his fault if they made a mistake? Nope he did nothing wrong or did he?
Surely as he had played for quite some time they are honour bound to let him
continue or am I being too black and white. Also why ban him for their mistake it all seems a little odd to me.
Good story though
Nannypat66

dazed1

i heard he busted tom marcese,didnt realise he also busted jason mercier aswell.heard he got banned from the casino which i think is fair because he said he knew that a mistake had been made but stil decided to chance his arm. 

Janana

he played for 9 HOURS until they noticed! sort it out sky

Brrrrrrr

IT seems a bit unfair to ban him from the casinos for life! It's not like he deliberately entered the $125 event to sneak into the High Roller event, it's the Aria staff at fault.

NChanning

 
 Do people consider this any different to going into the bank and asking to withdraw £150 and being given £15,000. I'm simply curious and not judging anyone but would you take the £15,000 in that situation?

 Would it make a difference if you knew the bank employee was getting the sack for it? (the person in the Aria will 100% be sacked).

 Can he really not have noticed that he was in the wrong event?

Brrrrrrr

In Response to Re: My Favourite Story of WSOP 2015 so far:

   Do people consider this any different to going into the bank and asking to withdraw £150 and being given £15,000. I'm simply curious and not judging anyone but would you take the £15,000 in that situation?  Would it make a difference if you knew the bank employee was getting the sack for it? (the person in the Aria will 100% be sacked).  Can he really not have noticed that he was in the wrong event?
Posted by NChanning

Personally I don't think it's the same thing at all.  The Aria made a mistake and the casino could have probably got some positive publicity by spinning it in a *Recreational player stumbles into High Roller circles' story and standing the buy-in (I think the casino could afford it) and if they wanted to recompense the professionals to soften the blow to the egos of the professionals they knocked out then thats up to them.

If it had been spotted after an hour or two, and officials wanted to disqualify him fair enoigh, but after seven hours? To me the possble life  ban is the thing I have an issue with..and for the record, in your scenario I wouldn't take the £15,000 from the bank but wouldn't say no to a gesture of thanks from them for my honesty.

NChanning

 I'm not sure the casino would get even $3000 worth of good publicity out of it. You could argue that advertising that their staff make these kind of mistakes is really bad publicity and that if it was possible to totally hush it up they would have rather done that...but in this world of social media that isn't possible.

 I'm not quite sure I go with "the casino can afford it". Surely the bank can afford it too. In both cases it comes straight from the profits of the company...the winner of the tournament is getting paid as if the entries were all collected. I both cases the employee who made a mistake is very likely to get fired.

 I also don't really get how "they made a mistake, they have to pay". They also spotted their mistake. If you are in a shop and you pay with £20 and they are just about to give you change for £50 and then they say "whoops, nearly gave you the wrong change" just as they hand the money, would you say "no way, you have to pay me you made a mistake". I don't see how the mistake getting spotted 7 hours later makes any difference.

 If you go to Tesco and they give you change from a £20 when you gave them £10 would you keep it? I might, I hate Tesco and the fact they are a greedy multi-national who rip-off their suppliers and are doing a lot of harm to the environment and the whole way we eat in this country would be a factor.

 If I was in a small independent greengrocer where I regularly talk to the manager I would definitely speak up.

 I don't think it's an easy one but I find it interesting.

 

tomgoodun

Very interesting topic, personally I think the analogy of Tesco is slightly flawed (not a dig Neil,just an observation)

I am of the mindset that if you have certain principles of honesty you stick to them no matter where you are, there will always be someone who suffers for the mistake, be it the company,the person who gave you the wrong change, or the fact the guy who pushes the trolleys will be " let go" as too many mistakes were made that calendar month.

I honestly think the good feeling you get from either returning a purse you found in the car park ( yup I did this) to pointing out you have been given too much change out-weighs the minutes of pleasure you get from receiving the mistaken monies.

I am not a saint and would like to point out I have been a bit of a scallywag in the past, but as I say the feeling is much better when you do the " right" thing.

As to Op question, it was always going to end in tears although jail seems rather harsh, so no I would defo not take the seat for many reasons.

NChanning

 I agree Tom, it is tricky. I was once collecting around $30,000 for a WSOP cash. The lady went to pay me twice. I told her she was making a big mistake and she became a bit grumpy and told me she was 100% right and I shouldn't question her.

 I pointed out that I was about to save her from being fired and she was massively relieved, apologised and almost had a heart-attack.

 I can't really say if I'd have taken the money if I never planned to play anymore WSOP events, if they hadn't just taken a copy of my passport, if she'd have been slightly more rude, if I was never coming to America again.

 I definitely think that a lot of people make the decision on the amount of money.

 I do think that the chance of this guy really 100% not knowing he was in the wrong tournament are tiny though.

Sir-Gary

Though Neil saying that he believes that there was only a tiny chance that this person did not know that they were in the wrong tournament could be true, we don't actually have any proof of this and so must look at the facts rather than speculate. They are : 

He paid his money to the casino to play in a tournament. 

The casino put him in a tournament

This was not the tournament he had paid for and therefore the casino are in breach of contract.

The casino could say they put him in a tournament of higher value therefore he was not damaged if it wasn't for the fact they removed him from it. By removing him from it they have in effect admitted error on their part, this opens the way qfor compensation claims from the other players.

Just thought I would mention what could be an innocent person here, even though to be honest I also find it difficult to imagine he did not realise. If he did realise after a while perhaps he was too embarrassed now to mention it or thought that as it was the casino that had done it he was now actually in this tournament. 

I actually think it would have been best for the casino to allow him to continue and stand his entrance fee, I suspect we will had more of this. It is funny though

NChanning

 Ok...so even if he 100% had no idea he was in the wrong event...there will come a time when they announce the prizes, when someone refers to the fact that it's $25,000 in conversation or possibly that one of his friends or family notice and point it out to him.

 At that point should he say something?

 What happens if he wins and gets away with it? Should he feel guilty? Ought he to spend the money really quickly in case they find out and ask for it back? What happens when someone that he often plays with in his regular events who is cross with him or jealous tells the Aria what has happened?

 If he did win it and the people who come 2nd to 9th find out should they sue the Aria for the extra prize money? Is it fair that the Aria lose around £250,000 because of one mistake by a (former) employee? If all these mistakes have to stand and the casino has to pay does it mean future rake goes up or casinos think it's not really worth ever holding poker tournaments again?

 I'm not sure it's quite as easy as some people think.

Essexphil

In Response to Re: My Favourite Story of WSOP 2015 so far:

Though Neil saying that he believes that there was only a tiny chance that this person did not know that they were in the wrong tournament could be true, we don't actually have any proof of this and so must look at the facts rather than speculate. They are :  He paid his money to the casino to play in a tournament.  The casino put him in a tournament This was not the tournament he had paid for and therefore the casino are in breach of contract.

The facts are that he paid to be in a low buy-in tournament, and kept quiet about being placed into a much larger buy-in tournament.

"Bank error in your favour" works really well in Monopoly, but there have been many instances of people being imprisoned in real life for attempting to keep this sort of windfall.

The life ban seems harsh-once this man has apologised to the person who no doubt lost their job, and reimbursed the casino for what looks like c.$20,000 it had to pay others (less the buy-in he had paid for, which is the only loss to him for any breach by the casino), he should be allowed to play again....

NChanning

 I think I started the banned for life rumour...that was just me knowing what these places are like...I  don't think it is certain that has happened.

MAXALLY

.....and all this because of an 'error'. 

What is going to happen with this rumour going around about actually cheating in the HU event out there this week??

Sky_JP

Would be interesting to know where the mistake was made.

I'd presume the cashier entered him into the wrong tournament, meaning he has a receipt for $25k (not that a receipt counts for much when there's about 28 cameras looking at every transaction).

At the same time, it could have been a mistake from a cardroom manager/tournament director.

It's worth pointing out that this mistake is infinately easier to make than some of the examples shown, especially withdrawing cash from a bank. £25k cash looks quite a bit different to £125 cash, but a receipt is a receipt all the same.

My personal opinion is that it's the casino's mistake, and the customer is not responsible for it. I don't think he should have been left in the tournament but I don't think he should be charged the buy-in and I don't think he should be banned or get into any trouble because of this. If a deal pays you out wrong on blackjack, a supervisor may ask for it back, but you're not goign to jail for it!

I used to help out in a small cardroom, and there's several times that juggling 10 rebuys, opening new tables, and a queue of 40 has lead to one or two customers not being charged. We'd always put up the buy-in as it was our mistake. Is this not the same situation? A player hasn't paid the full buy-in. (We're obviously talking about much smaller figures here!).

dazed1

I agree Tom, it is tricky. I was once collecting around $30,000 for a WSOP cash. The lady went to pay me twice. I told her she was making a big mistake and she became a bit grumpy and told me she was 100% right and I shouldn't question her.

if you had taken the double payout would you count it as another cash at wsop?!

Sir-Gary

I think the person involved should tell the casino as soon as they notice, whenever that happens to be. Preferably in quiet to the manager. The casino manager has a problem and the best option is to allow them to continue and pay the entrance fee for him. As his entrance fee is payed for he is allowed to play and there can be no legal comeback against the casino, as it is they are now IMO open to some legal comebacks from players which will probably cost them more money and some bad publicity as well. I have quite a bit of sympathy for the casino but it is clearly their mistake, and no amount of jumping up and down and pointing your finger at various other people will change it. Neil mentions an interesting point about him winning it, if he does then it might now be worthwhile disqualifying him and using the money to compensate others as this will cost them nothing. That gives even more reason to let them know you are in the wrong tournament as soon as possible. Though we are saying how did he not notice after 9 hours, by the same token how do we know when the casino noticed was it after 15 mins and they allowed him to continue believing that this recreational player will get knocked out soon and then no one will be any the wiser? was it after about 3 hours and they spent the rest of the time in discussions on what to do, or looking up to see what their terms and conditions actually says?