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Would anyone have played it different!

edited June 2015 in Poker Chat
Blinds 300-600
Rough starting stacks at beginning of hand
Me - 18,000
Opponent 24,000
Dealt 9,10 of spades
Call 
Raised from big blind to 1200 , and folded round to me and I call
Flop 7 hearts 7 clubs 8 spades 
I check
He bets 1200
I call
Turn 2 diamonds  and i Check, he bets 2000 I call, river J of clubs , I bet 2000 , he goes all in and I call. He has JJ  #ouch 


Comments

  • edited June 2015
    Wrong section.

    You want the Poker Clinic for strategy advice. Brags Beats and Variance is the place to post coolers.

    Raised from the big blind then folded around to you? Usually the big blind closes the action pre-flop. Anyway, the river all-in on a paired board is going to be a full-house often. Many villains simply aren't capable of an-in river bluff here ever. I haven't worked out the size of the pot on the river, but I think a good player with a read could find a fold.
  • edited June 2015
    Pretty sure it's in the right section Gary.... this is definitely a beat. Folding the river after we bet 2000 into 9000 and villain shoves for 12k more? A good villain could potentially go for some thin value with an overpair by raising river since we don't exactly look that strong. Or he can have 7x. So even if villain somehow never have a bluff, it's likely that folding could still be incorrect. Had we bet 6-7k OTR and villain ships for 20k then I would agree with you but after we bet just 2k into 9k we are inducing a raise both from worse hands from villain for value and from bluffs from villain.
  • edited June 2015
    A full house is gonna be often haha … ok. To be fair he prob woulda shoved all in if the river was a 6 also 
  • edited June 2015
    In Response to Re: Would anyone have played it different!:
    Pretty sure it's in the right section Gary.... this is definitely a beat.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    If BBV isn't the right place for beats I don't know what is. We definitely don't need them here in Poker Chat.
  • edited June 2015
    In Response to Re: Would anyone have played it different!:
    A full house is gonna be often haha … ok. To be fair he prob woulda shoved all in if the river was a 6 also 
    Posted by G_Unit09
    I said often, I didn't say every time. There are loads of possible full-houses in his range beating you. Quads too. You might have been drawing-dead from the flop.

    If the odds are irresistible it's a sigh-call. If they're not and it's a big shove from a tight player who's incapable of bluffing in this spot it's a comfortable fold.
  • edited June 2015
    He had only just been moved from another table so had no real info on him 
  • edited June 2015
    In Response to Re: Would anyone have played it different!:
    In Response to Re: Would anyone have played it different! : If BBV isn't the right place for beats I don't know what is. We definitely don't need them here in Poker Chat.
    Posted by GaryQQQ
    oops , thought it was already in BBV.
  • edited June 2015
    Was my first ever post, was just a Q I wanted to ask, apologises for it being in the wrong forum 
  • edited June 2015
    In Response to Re: Would anyone have played it different!:
    Was my first ever post, was just a Q I wanted to ask, apologises for it being in the wrong forum 
    Posted by G_Unit09
    Well you've ruined everyone's weekend with your incorrect forum selection, so I hope you're happy now...


    (sarcasm = max)
  • edited June 2015
    Come on guys - a new poster asks for help on a hand and all we can do is argue about whether it is the right thread?

    Not clear on the preflop action? Could you please clarify?

    Presumably you are SB as BB raises - and as it is folded round to you and you are first to act post flop? Given the comment about folding back to you I assume there were limpers in the pot when you called?

    generally 9Ts I would be open raising or folding depending on position and the table dynamic. 

    If there were multiple limpers then ok to limp but being aware we are looking for 2 pair or pair+draw or str8 and a flush draw to generally be interested post flop. 

    Here we have overcards, the str8 draw and a backdoor flush draw against the preflop aggressor. Not ideal with the paired board.

    Flop bet could be a cbet with anything so worth the call with our equity but I am starting to lose interest with the Turn bet though.

    With more info to play the player could be a fold to a known tight player or a check/raise to a known loose aggressive player.

    The river is pretty much a cooler though.


  • edited June 2015

     Hi Geno, thanks for posting, good that people try and improve and think about poker rather than just moaning about bad beats.

     First question would be why did you limp? I would say raising has three main advantages...you can win the pot then and there which is always good, you eliminate the blinds who may beat you with inferior hands or possibly they call and you get to play a hand that flops very well, in position, a very good thing to do...you define your hand. That is to say it's much easier to put your opponent on a range of hands when you have represented your hand. If you raise here and get re-raised by the big blind you can conclude that often he has an above average hand, if you limp and are raised by the big blind he may have a much worse hand than if you'd raised as he may feel you are weak because of the limp and he is trying to punish you. Later in the hand this may make all your decisions trickier...the other advantage is that you want to build a pot generally with these easy to play hands. You'll often flop a good draw but if you don't you can escape reasonably cheaply, that is why these hands are much better than say A7 where you might hit without ever knowing where you are.

     After that raise I would call. I'm not going to do that too often with 12,000 or less chips but you have enough to call. The flop is not great, you are up and down but you could be dead already. You have a decent stack but you could go broke even if you hit. It's risky. Not sure how you checked, I think he bet and you called, unless you are in the small blind in this hand...knowing the position is massively important. Anyway, I would call, it's 1200 to win 3600+ that is in there so you are getting more than the 2/1 odds that you are to hit your straight and you have great implied odds...you get to double up if you get called after you hit. The downside is you might have "reverse implied odds" that is to say he only goes all-in with you when he has a house and you are dead.

     I call on the turn. You are now just about 9/2 odds to hit your straight but you are getting about 3/1 pot odds and you still have implied odds. If I call twice to hit it now and it comes I'm getting my money in.

     I hit. I'm calling. There is no way I could ever fold. It's unlucky. Have a word with yourself about the preflop though.
     
  • edited June 2015
    Hey G

    Probably fold the turn, it's a paired boad, we could be drawing dead/ even if we hit our 10 or J we may not be live.

    Overall try and be aggressive (don't limp) - it's better to bet than to call.




  • edited June 2015
    Never had any room to be aggressive with my hand and had the 6 hit i prob woulda still made a good bit off him.
    Had I folded to his all in , only woulda been left with 5 or 6 bb or something I forget . Wasn't many though 
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