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Can You Make A Profit?
I love playing poker. I have been playing poker for a while now, I've read lots of books, I have lost lots of money on a few sites. I do win sometimes, but over all I am losing big time. I would like to actually turn a profit from playing (that's my retirement dream). I have made a profit for short periods but then I go back to losing.
I know how to work out my outs and pot odds, and I understand some tactics of the game.
I have made some friends on here (who are good regular players) and they have said my game has improved over the last 6 months.
I am running pretty bad at the moment, but I'm sure everyone goes through that.
I need some inspiration, obviously you can't win all the time, and if you are losing with the best hand you're just running bad, but is it possible to make money in the long run on online poker?
Is it possible to run bad for a long time? (Like years?)
Can anyone offer me some advice to help me improve my game, I don't want to be a loser any more!
Thank you very much,
Fi33er
Comments
Regarding running bad, when a spell of running bad goes on for a while bad play has mixed in with the running bad. People are no longer playing optimally as they are scared of what cards will come out.
What sort of volume are you playing at the moment? A bad run can easily go on years if your volume is low.
When you are betting try and avoid mashing the pot button. Anywhere from 50%-2/3rd pot it good.
These 2 things will help you have an instant positive impact on your game.
Have a bankroll.
Say you have £300 in your account, this is a good b/r given the amount of tables you play. 30 Buy ins.
You're goal should be to turn that £300 into say £600(playing at 10nl), you then have 30 buy ins for 20nl. If you drop below £400 you can move down again. Rinse / Repeat.
I cant offer any better advice than what has been said already above me, I went from being a losing player to a break even player to a slightly winning player, and your story loks pretty similar to mine, the fact that your asking for help suggests you should be turning the corner any moment now.
The one piece of advice I would like to share is to look for reasons to fold.
Simple as that, dont be afraid to fold . Folding will save you a chunk of money, folding on an earlier street will save you costly mistakes on later streets. Whilst you are improving, being able to let go of worse hands earlier should mean that the hands you hang on to , leave you in a better place to be playing in your post flop game.
Look for a reason to fold, folding should be your new best friend.
If you're in position with no raises before you, these sort of hands (J9s/87s) are pretty mandatory opens from the button and quite often in the cutoff (depending on who is on the button). The game of a decade ago where most oppos were playing every other hand and we could afford to sit and wait for absolute premiums are long gone.
Also not sure about folding AJ to an open (assuming I'm in position). Always seems to strong to fold or bluff (3b), as always its oppo dependent / position dependent, but I don't see calling with position being a bad option. As is the case with other hands, just need to remember not to get tied to 1-pair hands if you get an A-high flop but the original raiser then bets pot on every street!
Always bet your hands when you hit something... very few oppos that will do the job for you. And always try to find the fold button if you get raised at any point, unless you have pots of equity (eg AKs on JT2 flop to give gutshot, flush draw and possibly live overcards) or an absolute minimum of 2pr (although again player dependent, you should be keeping notes to know who are the absolute nits that will only ever do this with sets or stronger).
And its almost never the correct decision to slow play KK/AA pre-flop and try to trap. Build the pot asap!
This thread should be a good read as it grows
Fi33er
Some very good advice here from notable names on sky that should stand you in good stead.
The most frustrating thing in poker for me is when you do something to achieve a win and you know in the back of your head that it is not a good thing. You know he has it and you call out of spite, or frustration. or tilt. Doing something stupid is my biggest tilt factor and drives me crazy. I know now what the signs are and I know the problem It took me a while to figure out the puzzle. My opponent is playing better than me or knows how I think about the game and can take advantage of me. Then I used to start playing more hand more loosely and more wildly. They had got to me.
Your issues are different because you play higher than me and you play passively ( Larson7 says ) and think about the issues that mean you don't win regular, what are the causes and how can I plug them. Lets ask someone what they think
Poker is not about cards poker is about the fight to win the money in the middle. Sometimes the cards will play a part in this and sometimes they wont. Sometimes what you think of your opponent will let you win the pot because they are tight, knit or weak. But you are on the right road.
Firstly just by reading your post I can tell you what your biggest issues are.
You think too short term about your results. I lost with aces etc I had top pair he had a straight. If you think lifetime about what you want to achieve in terms of growing as a player adding skills to your arsenal, becoming feared. understanding who I want to play with and who I need to be careful of. This is an on going project that will take you an immense amount of time but it is something worth doing if you love the game enough. If you love yourself enough then you are worth investing your time into improving and this should become your priority.
You are being too passive. This will be your second biggest leak. Being passive means you invite and encourage more people into the pot to beat you with junk or marginal holdings or with hands that cant stand a raise. Being more aggressive will initially put fear into people and make them more cautious but blind aggression can be your undoing. Understanding aggression and what you want to achieve with it , why , who where and when once you start to think like this then aggression will do amazing things for you. Aggression used properly will be you're best asset in poker but it is not a case of I raise so I push this button and now I'm aggressive think why have a reason.
Aggression is not about how much money I have tomorrow but being aggressive will make you a more successful player today tomorrow and in the future. More reasons to do it than not.
Have a plan. One of the most important things in poker. You have KK and raise and flop comes ace high . You have one pair top pair hand and he wants to put you all in. These are common ways of thinking but it goes deeper than that. You should be anticipating each player and their actions. If he calls and someone raises I should not call. If someone 3 bets and then there's a call I'm all in. Anticpate the players . Flops, you should be thinking of what flops are good for you , if they are not good for me are they good for villain. If I call what cards are good for me If I call out of the blinds with 99 and flop comes 6,7 j and he could well have overpair how much will it cost me to see turn and river. Will I be broke by then . How much of my stack will I put in on a flush draw or chasing cards. What are good bluffing cards from me what can I represent. Does my line tell a consistent story. Am I making sense if this cards comes and I start repping it . Why wont he fold. Why wont I fold. Why am I still bluffing. He knows I'm bluffing and I know and I keep doing it. Why? Think about your actions in terms of cash you are losing. Stop doing stuff that costs you money. I keep going in this shop when I get paid I play the fruity and leave with no wages. Unless your stupid you would not keep doing this cos you would have no food no roof and no way to get to work. Poker is no different it loves people who keep doing stupid things.
Sky and Poker will always give you cards that connect in some way, keep you interested some of the time but how many times will I hit my draw, how many times will I go broke. Pot odds are fine but most people think 80% 20% equity AA v KK four times out of five you win and won in five I lose. Flush draws 80% of the time you will lose chasing them. 4 times out of five you could be broke. This figure is ballpark and not accurate but I am trying to give you an alternative way of thinking about facts of poker and what they mean. On the flip side you have to be aggressive with draws. You have to be aggressive with draws and build pots otherwise you wont get value when you hit. There is always a reason to do something and then in some way there are always counter reasons or arguments for being careful when doing so. ( like aggression ).
Playing OOP. Out of position will be your biggest leak in poker. Discipline and understanding of why you should not be doing this. Master this and you are halfway to becoming successful. OOP will kill your profit and then you are signing up to do the most difficult thing in poker. Just because people can take advantage of your checks and have more information about the way you want play the hand. Poker money generally moves clockwise around a table and people who are oop are not getting their fare share of it. Then simple don't do it. Easier said than done because here is the counter argument. Unless you play OOP your ranges and your actions are predictable and exploitable.
Assigning ranges. If you get to the river with your one pair top pair hand and there is KQT on board and he puts you all in. Then he has you beat. His range is 85% straight and then sets or two pairs. If you know this then you are assigning ranges and should be doing this more often as soon as opponents enter hands with calls raises or checks, Their actions define their ranges and you should be thinking about this at all times.
Be conscious of this and work on this and it we be a factor in how well you do in poker and how quickly.
Bet sizes. What do they mean. These are very indicative of what they mean from certain players and are very reliable. People act very predictably and bet sizes can be very reliable of what their hand strength is or what they are trying to get you to understand. You know what strength is and you probably know when your gut tells you you are beat. Trust your gut
Look at your bet sizes from the ten biggest hand you have won recently. Your bets tell a convincing story. Then look at the ten biggest pots you have lost recently and then look at the bet sizes of your opponents. What story are they telling you. There is information there that if you use properly and spend time understanding what they mean then you are less prone to fall for it next time.
So to summarise
1) Think differently about the game - Think what can I achieve in a lifetime. NOT HOW MUCH DID I WIN THIS SESSION OR TODAY. OR WHAT HAVE I LOST THIS SESSION OR TODAY ETC.
2) Being too passive - Aggression. You know this use it in the right way and have a reason. Don't just press raise button this is not autopilot. Think why. Best hand? Value? Bluff? Squeeze? Information? of should I just give my money away.
3) PLAYING OOP - DOING THIS REGULARLY WILL COST YOU THE MOST AMOUNT OF MONEY EVER IN POKER. THINK SUICIDE. Think of reasons why I should not do it not just I should not do this.
3) Have a plan - UNDERSTAND WHAT CAN HAPPEN AND THEN THINK WHAT WILL I LET HAPPEN. Situations occur again and again and again learn from them.
4) Assigning RANGES - Will mean you lose less money and win more money. Getting someone to put loads in with the second best hand. Bingo. Losing less with the second best hand cos you think you know what he has Bingo.
Poker is A B C. Poker means different things to different people but understanding advice concepts is one thing. Learning what they mean learning how they work. Learning how you benefit from them. Learning how you make money from them. That is what you should be thinking about . What do they mean to me? PLAY THE SITUATION IS EVERYTHING I HAVE MENTIONED ABOVE. PLAYING THE SITUATION NOT THE CARDS NOT JUST THE PLAYER.
START TO DO THESE THINGS, LEARN FROM MISTAKES YOU MAKE. WATCH GOOD PLAYERS WATCH MATT BATES WATCH LARSON7. YOU CAN LEARN FROM THEM
Know comes the bad news. These are just guidelines to get you started on where you are going. Good players will gradually understand what you are doing. They don't play by these rules and they know how to take advantage of people who do. Matt Bates, Tommy D, RSPCA can play OOP all day long because they know how to lose less, they have the plan and they understand your aggression. They expect you to do certain things.
If you can make them think and make them doubt themselves or analyse what they did wrong. Now you are playing poker.
Good luck
Danny
Defo do this as well, this will help a lot.
I'd post a few hands that were your biggest winning/ losing hands of the week.
Eventually, you want to look at the smaller pots, these hands are where most poker players win/ lose money.
Bigger hands are often coolers, but will still be a good starting points to look at.
Cheers for the comments. We are here to learn from each other and from mistakes we make. Being able to identify patterns, weaknesses and leaks and stopping them is how we improve. How quickly you learn and apply them dictates what level you play at so potentially there is a lot at stake. Just changing the angle you look at something from or other people's perspectives can make massive swings in your game in the right direction. The more we spend time doing poker but not at the table will also dictate our learning rate.
Good luck
Danny