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Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....

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  • lJAMESllJAMESl
    edited January 2010
    This was a post I made on Total Player thread a while ago when some players were arguing about high stakes players being selected...

    "Being a player who started at the very bottom of the cash stakes around 2.5 years ago I can relate to some of these posts which show a certain disappointment from the lower stakes players. About 2.5 years ago I began my poker journey which consisted of 5c-10c (the equivalent of 2p-4p nowadays) 6max holdem cash on another site which I wont mention due to advertising issues. At these stakes it is fair to say the poker is a lower standard of play than say £2.5/5 NLHE 6max but now and again a player(s) will dominate these stakes, the luckiest players at this standard?"

    To evaluate upon this, I started at the very bottom of the poker food chain I was a uni student and had spent my student loan for the month and had about £50 left before my overdraft maxed out! Those were the days :-D

    Around 2.5 - 3 years ago I applied to every place in town to get a job but as you can imagine all the other uni students had taken all the jobs and I was left with no real options. I decided to put £10 (back then equivalent to $20) into a poker site not this one where I played 5c-10c, I had played poker with friends before and new the basics etc was already good at trapping players and made the most unreal laydowns for a beginner. More because I didn't understand hand ranges etc and just thought everyone must have aces. But it worked and a month later I had spun it up into (£500) $1000. I was absolutely chuffed and thought to myself how easy is this. 

    A month later I did the same again making around $1000 it was getting me by and I had almost spent the other money I earnt. I saw an advertisement for sponsorship with a site called DTD run by a chap called Paul Jackson, you had to have a trial run with a guy called Jeff Burke for a week and if you were good enough they sponsored you with a £2000 bankroll but you had to play 4 tables at least 6 hours a day 5 days a week. You would keep all profits and they would keep all rakeback. Each week I would have a session with Jeff where he would go through hands and give me pointers, now Jeff was a very old school player he would tell you thinks like fold 7s UTG in a 6max cash game etc, tight is right obviously this wasn't too bad for a beginner and some of the things he taught me I have totally altered and developed into my own playing style. I did this for around 2 months before leaving the sponsorship scheme having fallen behind in class and my friends never seeing me I had to knock it on the head. 

    Paul always told me I was always welcome back infact we are friends to this very day (although the scheme stopped a long time ago). I made a small profit in the 2 months around £1600 which I was chuffed with and now had my own mini roll to go alone and play what times suited me.

    Of course over 2.5 years you learn alot I've played alot of hands in this short space of time, read books, gone through mistakes I made each session and I also have a really good memory. I can remember hands from 2.5 years ago like it was yesterday with shocking accuracy. I have a weird brain I tell my friends, where I can remember pictures really well like visual things but if you tell me something I am prone to forgetting it in 5 minutes. I like to think I'm good at problem solving and my maths was always strong as I have an A-level in that which all has helped my online game. 

    I was doing good online and had about a £12k bankroll after about 3 months after I quit the DTD scheme. I decided in a summer break I had try out a new poker club in Swindon which is called KC's poker club a friend had told me about it, and I guess I sort of wanted to show people what I can do.

    I went down the poker club and there were all these older guys big, loud, intimidating I was pretty nervous. I bought in for the £30 freezeout which had about 35 runners. I ended up winning and made some crazy bluffs all throughout I guess I've never been afraid to make a big play if I think I'm right even at the risk of being stupid. I made some huge bluff with pocket 4's where a guy ended up belittling me saying something like "Your gonna lose all your money playing like that son" I just kept quiet. Another guy interrupted and said "No this guy is the kiddy, you dont wanna mess with him Rich!". I just laughed wasn't sure if they were caning me or what. I guess I've always had a fearless nature from the start really I'm pretty sure its a good attribute but you have to know how to tame it which can take a while. 

    At this club I have met some great friends and also lost one great friend. There was a chinese guy called Jon Chan (No not the one off the TV) but he was chinese, a 68 year old guy who would peform 'tai chi' when he walked into the poker room, one of the most bubbliest and funniest men I have ever met in my life, me and Jon became good friends he used to call me his boy "Mai boi" I was like his adopted son. We used to play cash and became such good friends its a friendly club but he would always say "Half - half?" in the smaller pots and would try and split the pot with me lol. He would always tell me stories in his strong chinese accent at the table and we would laugh and joke together for hours, he was a great player and he taught me how to get value from big hands just by watching him play. He would always say "Mai boi go college, poker no good!" I would say but Jon I win alot online he always would say each day "You got one hundred thousand yet?" followed by his little giggle. Jon made people realise that life was worth living and he would never be unhappy his sheer presence could light up any room. And he is a friend I sorely miss, it is coming up to his 2 year anniversary since he passed away and I would hope that Jon would be proud of me for succeeding in poker and not too disappointed that I quit uni. Here is a small link for you guys to see of him the article is around 2 years old but there is a picture of him. His favourite quotes were "You always smiling" to me and " Hello my darling" To the biggest meanest guys at the poker club. RIP Jon x 


    With online poker my good spell continued and I ended up making a lot more money online per month, I started missing uni classes though and this was not going down well with my parents, friends or lecturers. I eventually ended up missing my exams due to late night poker grinding which to be honest is silly. Anyone reading this get your degree always have a back up plan. Today I have played games as big as $100/200 and regularly play $5-10 $10-20 on another site other than Sky where I am a big winner. Recommendations to anyone who thinks poker is easy to make a living its really not. I think you either have it or you don't.

    But saying that even to this day, I actively look to improve my game watching coaching videos, reading poker forums, analysing my own hands. I started playing the live circuit in 2009 and out of 15 comps I entered I cashed in 7, my biggest cash being £53k in a live comp. I have a knack for building huge chip stacks or usually busting early. After speaking to Tikay, I think I've know adapted that and can change gears and play solid poker too.

    The game is going to get harder throughout as the years go by and I wouldn't recommend anyone to try and start a career in poker. It is the hardest way to make an easy living trust me on that one :-)

    GL To all and I hope this wasnt too long and boring!

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  • lJAMESllJAMESl
    edited January 2010
    Ps - if the link doesn't work by clicking on it just copy and paste it into the browser if you want to read the article and see a picture of Jon and his daughter. One of the finest men I have ever had the pleasure of meeting he was truly a Legend. 
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  • TiaDalmaTiaDalma
    edited January 2010
    Great thread. Really Interesting to hear how all you guys got started. Look forward to reading more. p.s followed your torney James, vul but wp.
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice
    edited January 2010
    Great posts James and everyone.
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  • scrumdownscrumdown
    edited January 2010
    great post dan hope 2010 a good year for u
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO
    edited January 2010
    this is what im talking about. great stuff all
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  • richtearichtea
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....:
    Nooooowhere near a pro!!! Just finished uni, Still living at home, so getting away with murder really, kinda looking for a job but kinda not, If ya no wat I mean, wud need to be a cracking offer to get me excited about it, as Im winning quite abit on here, enough to pay big bed n board to the folks, but nowhere near enough to move out n get things going properly.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    SNAP!!! I haven't even dared signing on the dole yet for fear of having to get a rubbish job instead of getting by on poker winnings...
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  • 35suited35suited
    edited January 2010
    Some great stroies, thanks for sharing
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO
    edited January 2010
    lolusparce?
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  • IRISHROVERIRISHROVER
    edited January 2010
    wow what a great insight into the pro poker world,

    best read i have had in this forum in a long time,

    excellent post james !
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....:
    wow what a great insight into the pro poker world, best read i have had in this forum in a long time, excellent post james !
    Posted by IRISHROVER
    +1

    thread of the year.

    some of these posts should be stickys imo
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2010

    Great insights from Dan and James. Jame's comment about it being the hardest way to make an easy living is very accurate. I've never been a cash player as I get bored too easily, I generally do ok but haven't got the sustainability to be successful, so I play mtts.

    I started playing poker online 6 or 7 years ago. I'd sold my business and was ''resting'' and so had a lot of time on my hands. I'd played poker since school and logged onto a site and entered a tournament. After a week or so I won my first tournament and a nice pot of money. I then joined a forum (1808gang) and began playing on the Tribeca network sites. I played 3 or 4 tournaments a day and became engrossed in the game. In 2004 I was starting to cash regularly in mtts in the range of $10 - $50 entry. In 2005 I had a cash rate of 1 in 3 played and won over 30 mtts that year. My best night was winning the 2 main events of the evening, a $5,000 and a $12,500 mtt at the same time. In 2005 I had tournament prize-money of $247,000, played across 3 sites, finished in the top 0.5% of the WCOOP main events, and I was knackered. I loved it but I was completely shattered. I had poker thoughts running around my brain 24/7. I would wake up thinking about hands I'd played the night before. I was a complete bore to anyone not involved in poker.

    I wouldn't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for poker or the dream of being a pro. But as Jame's said, it's the hardest way to make an easy living. Online tournament play has changed dramatically in the last couple of years and making a living from tournaments alone is not really a sustainable option. It wasn't when I was taking it seriously and it's harder now. I can't comment on cash as I've never tried it.

    I can comment on what I've seen over the years though. I know very good players who tried and most have fallen by the wayside. Some still scrape by and they are professional, but very few actually make much money. The intensity of trying to make a living from online poker takes its toll and the vast majority of players fall by the wayside. Nowadays I play for fun/amusement and because I love the game. Any thoughts of making a living at it don't exist (I don't think they ever did with me) and playing for fun is more enjoyable, although I'm still a professional in poker when it comes to moaning about bad beats etc.

    Anyone thinking of doing poker for a living needs to be certain they are good enough and dedicated enough to succeed. Success might be life changing but failing definitely will be. If any of you are planning to try, I wish you luck, I really do. Those that do make a success of it such as Dan and James are in a minority, a very very small minority.

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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....:
    Great insights from Dan and James. Jame's comment about it being the hardest way to make an easy living is very accurate. I've never been a cash player as I get bored too easily, I generally do ok but haven't got the sustainability to be successful, so I play mtts. I started playing poker online 6 or 7 years ago. I'd sold my business and was ''resting'' and so had a lot of time on my hands. I'd played poker since school and logged onto a site and entered a tournament. After a week or so I won my first tournament and a nice pot of money. I then joined a forum (1808gang) and began playing on the Tribeca network sites. I played 3 or 4 tournaments a day and became engrossed in the game. In 2004 I was starting to cash regularly in mtts in the range of $10 - $50 entry. In 2005 I had a cash rate of 1 in 3 played and won over 30 mtts that year. My best night was winning the 2 main events of the evening, a $5,000 and a $12,500 mtt at the same time. In 2005 I had tournament prize-money of $247,000, played across 3 sites, finished in the top 0.5% of the WCOOP and I was knackered. I loved it but I was completely shattered. I had poker thoughts running around my brain 24/7. I would wake up thinking about hands I'd played the night before. I was a complete bore to anyone not involved in poker. I wouldn't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for poker or the dream of being a pro. But as Jame's said, it's the hardest way to make an easy living. Online tournament play has changed dramatically in the last couple of years and making a living from tournaments alone is not really a sustainable option. It wasn't when I was taking it seriously and it's harder now. I can't comment on cash as I've never tried it. I can comment on what I've seen over the years though. I know very good players who tried and most have fallen by the wayside. Some still scrape by and they are professional, but very few actually make much money. The intensity of trying to make a living from online poker takes its toll and the vast majority of players fall by the wayside. Nowadays I play for fun/amusement and because I love the game. Any thoughts of making a living at it don't exist (I don't think they ever did with me) and playing for fun is more enjoyable, although I'm still a professional in poker when it comes to moaning about bed beats etc. Anyone thinking of doing poker for a living needs to be certain they are good enough and dedicated enough to succeed. Success might be life changing but failing definitely will be.If any of you are planning to try, I wish you luck, I really do. Those that do make a success of it such as Dan and James are in a minority, a very very small minority.
    Posted by elsadog
    Elsa,

    That quote should be etchted into anybody's mind who's contemplating poker as a living
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice
    edited January 2010
    Top post Alan.
    Very sound advice.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2010
    Top post Alan and great reading the high stakes players stories

    Thx for sharing

    Heres mine

    At School - Ciggies as chips ( at least it stopped me smoking many)

    Facebook ( Only fun but amazing how attractive virtual chips make you to females, so played like it was the WSOP)

    Then Online Cash , i play on all the major sites but prefer sky for the community and mostly British players

    In profit overal on sky and managed to buy the gf a few treats so she don't moan everytime i log in

    Mostly play MTT's but lately been playing a bit of PLO (not in profit on that atm but improving i think)
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  • -TARAS--TARAS-
    edited January 2010

    Top,Top posts on this enthralling thread. Thanks for taking the time to share your great storis and insight everyone.Forget about the cinema im staying right here!  

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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....:
    Top post Alan and great reading the high stakes players stories Thx for sharing Heres mine At School - Ciggies as chips ( at least it stopped me smoking many) Facebook ( Only fun but amazing how attractive virtual chips make you to females, so played like it was the WSOP) Then Online Cash , i play on all the major sites but prefer sky for the community and mostly British players In profit overal on sky and MTT's but lately been playing a bit of PLO (not in profit on that atm but improving i think)managed to buy the gf a few treats so she don't moan everytime i log in Mostly play
    Posted by HuFlungPu

    Can be a bad idea this m8. I convinced my missus to let me play one night by promising her a new stable/field shelter for the horses, if I won.  I won and had to fork out £2500 for the promise. I actually won just under £2,000 so had to dip into my poker fund for £600.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....:
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living.... : Can be a bad idea this m8. I convinced my missus to let me play one night by promising her a new stable/field shelter for the horses, if I won.  I won and had to fork out £2500 for the promise. I actually won just under £2,000 so had to dip into my poker fund for £600.
    Posted by elsadog

    Lol

    If i win £200 i tell mine iv won £100

    She getting a DS Lite not a PS3 

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  • Ads2kukAds2kuk
    edited January 2010
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living....:
    In Response to Re: Anyone play online poker for a living, or to earn a living.... : Lol If i win £200 i tell mine iv won £100 She getting a DS Lite not a PS3 
    Posted by HuFlungPu
    Haha agreed! - I'm treating the missus to a Fish n Chips rather than a swanky eat in place! :D


    By the way, absolutely brilliant thread! - Best I have read on here...
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  • NoseyBonkNoseyBonk
    edited January 2010
    Terrific thread, great stories. And James sorry to hear about your good friend Jon, sounds like he was a real gent.
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  • dantb10dantb10
    edited January 2010
    Great thread this!!
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  • emilyeggemilyegg
    edited January 2010

    Mine would be LUCKY to get a




    With my Winnings.

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  • 14all14all
    edited January 2010

    Yes, really interesting.

    Everybody has said they learn from others and this thread is a chance to do that too.

    Looking forward to more poker life stories!
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  • mabsuemabsue
    edited January 2010
    Absolutely agree total gripping reading i have often wondered what it would be like i could play poker for hours each and everyday (if i wanted to be single) but i love my girl so i have to let myself just believe that one day money restraints will be lifted and i will have the time and money to take a year out and really have a go at what to be honest is something the more i play the more i want to play getting used to bad beats now i just laugh and move on to next hand or next game thats getting easier although sometimes i still look twice and think how did you call me with that lol but who doesnt fingers crossed i will get the opportunity somewhere down the line i am a better player live than online so need to redress that balance i think the time you get live for thought process is greater that enables me to work things out and READ people better i have won a few tourneys live and recently a nice one resulted in just under 2k after christmas very nice too so i wish everyone the best of luck with whatever they choose to do in poker but above all else if you stop enjoying it STOP PLAYING  yours Mark aka Mabsue
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  • darichdarich
    edited January 2010
    Thread of the year imo!

    Really informative and interesting read - thanks for taking the time to fill us in!
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  • AceAceBabyAceAceBaby
    edited January 2010

    +1 greats threads.
    esp james's and gl in seeking revenge on 55 caller :)
     andy purser plays at my casino, altho getting hammered HU still very good result

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