was i beat? did i put too much money in the pot?

jakeus

in a spin up game, 50p/£1, one player had obviously been playing a while and had bulit a large stack. Didnt see him bluff a lot but a lot of player were folding to him so cant really tell. felt like he had an overpair but could be wrong. any tips or info of how i could have played this better? thanks

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
options710	Sit out
bogacki05	Sit out
badtoad	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£15.10
Vince_107	Big blind		£1.00	£1.50	£357.10
	Your hole cards	J 10
jakeus	Raise		£2.00	£3.50	£92.65
FITF3	Fold
badtoad	Fold
Vince_107	Raise		£6.00	£9.50	£351.10
jakeus	Call		£5.00	£14.50	£87.65
Flop
		9 8 2
Vince_107	Bet		£8.00	£22.50	£343.10
jakeus	Call		£8.00	£30.50	£79.65
Turn
		J
Vince_107	Bet		£17.00	£47.50	£326.10
jakeus	Raise		£34.00	£81.50	£45.65
Vince_107	Call		£17.00	£98.50	£309.10
River
		8
Vince_107	Bet		£98.50	£197.00	£210.60
jakeus	Fold
Vince_107	Muck
Vince_107	Win		£96.70		£307.30
Vince_107	Return		£98.50	£1.80	£405.80

Matt237

Turn seems like a good card to flat on and take it to a river

CraigSG1

Dont like call pre but i'm probably wrong.

Calling fine on flop. 

 Why raise turn? And so small? We have show down value, a good draw and possibly more outs if we are not already good.

Cant call river. Has to be a maniac bluff, especially after we raise turn.

F_Ivanovic

As others have said: Why are you raising turn? You aren't getting called by enough worse hands and you aren't folding out better. Just flat and see a river. Folding river seems fine.... we don't beat anything except a hand like T9 turning it's hand into a bluff.

alex1229

Raise on the turn makes me puke a bit

jakeus

Think my raise on the turn was to get info on weather he was bluffing or not. I was sure he wasn't after the call then bet on the river so I folded, where as if I just called down all the way I may not have been so convinced and ended up calling a large bet on the river... So it saved me money. That's the idea anyway, was this the wrong play?

jordz16

I think when you raise the turn you are effectively bluffing in a spot where your hand will be good a lot of the time, the fact he has 3bet preflop means he is repping a strong hand, when you raise him on the turn he might fold ak/aq and thats about it, and they are the hands you want to keep bluffing you. If he has an overpair then there will be lots of rivers which he probably checks down anyway so the raise on the turn just inflates the pot for no real reason, also if you are ahead on the river its quite likely he will give up as 3 barrell bluffing on a board like that is rare imo.

Sky_Dan

fold pre! But I'm a nit.

Sky_Dan

fold pre! But I'm a nit.

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: was i beat? did i put too much money in the pot?:

Think my raise on the turn was to get info on weather he was bluffing or not. I was sure he wasn't after the call then bet on the river so I folded, where as if I just called down all the way I may not have been so convinced and ended up calling a large bet on the river... So it saved me money. That's the idea anyway, was this the wrong play?
Posted by jakeus

Our primary goal with betting should NEVER be to "find out where we are" If you think villain might be bluffing, then why not just call turn and river (if you think he'll continue to bluff OTR?) By raising turn we are just folding out his bluffs (or worse, giving them the option to raise again - and then you're in a situation where you think you've found out where you are and fold but were in actual fact ahead.)

We should have 2 primary reasons for betting or raising: For value and as a bluff. Raising here is neither for value or as a bluff. Getting information is a side benefit we get from betting