How can I improve?

thisltedu

Like many, I managed to satellite into the UKPC, had a great time and have come back enthused about poker but also realising I have a long way to go in my learning.

 

I have been playing for about 2 years. I have reached a level where I have mastered some of the basics. I’ve been learning from books and watching Skypoker on 861. In my day job I know that to stay at the top I need to go on advanced courses and learn from the best. At golf I have lessons from the professional to iron out faults that creep into my game.

 

So my question is – What resources are there to help me and the many others like me to improve? Can anyone suggest the best books, on-line resources, live tuition? I am particularly/exclusively interested in tournament NLHE play.

 

Are the likes of SharkScope any good?

 

Donald

unknown_username

Where are you from Donald, your accent sounds yorkshire?

LARSON7

Just get as much practice in as possible on the table, theres a lot of stuff you just pick up over time.

If you have an interesting hand, or one you are unsure about, post it up in the poker clinic.

There is a lot of decent streams on twitch too, Jason Sommerville is really good at talking through his thought process and why he played a hand a certain way.

chicknMelt

there are loads of ways to improve your game: books, training videos, talking through hands with (preferably) better players, hand analysis tools etc.

In my opinion, the amount of studying you put in will directly correlate with how successful you are as a player. It is true that you can/will pick things up just by playing, but the process will be alot slower. I would say that books/ taining videos/ watching other good players discuss hands (twitch) are going to be fairly effective at helping you pick up new strategies and exlaining new concepts to you. By far the quickest way (and most expensive, obviously) is 1-1 coaching. This is because your coach will be able to spot things that you do wrong that maybe you hadn't even considered before, point out where you are applying certain concepts in the wrong way, and will generally plug all your biggest leaks in a short period of time.

I think probably the best book around at the moment is chris moormans one, although it is aimed at intermediate + players. there are plenty of good books for beginners.

as for training videos, there are some free ones on youtube (although the quality is mixed, there are plenty of very good ones). There are also premium sites that charge you a monthly fee, and include videos from some of the games top players, such as cardrunners or runitonce.

There are tools to help you analyse hands: flopzilla - for understanding how certain ranges hit certain boards, cardrunnersev - for understanding the lines that will give you the highest expected value on certain boards, propokertools/ pokerstove - for understanding hand equities vs other hands/ ranges.

I've PM'd you about 1-1 coaching too if that is of interest.

Tikay10

Hi Donald,

All the advice so far is good.

Only thing I'd add is you mentioned Sharkscope. All that does is "keep score", & helps you compare your ability with others - that aside, it does not teach you anything.

Also, as someone noted, try "The Poker Clinic", you'll get tons of advice on there.  

RLT16

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Hi Donald, All the advice so far is good. Only thing I'd add is you mentioned Sharkscope. All that does is "keep score", & helps you compare your ability with others - that aside, it does not teach you anything. Also, as someone noted, try "The Poker Clinic", you'll get tons of advice on there.  
Posted by Tikay10

it does have some decent training vids but only if you become a member, if you know anyone with a subscription that wouldnt mind giving you their login details they are worth watching

Tikay10

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

In Response to Re: How can I improve? : it does have some decent training vids but only if you become a member, if you know anyone with a subscription that wouldnt mind giving you their login details they are worth watching
Posted by RLT16

Ahh, my apologies, I never knew that.

DOHHHHHHH

A fairly new, and in my opinion under-rated way of learning for recreational players is twitch.tv.

http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Poker

It allows you to watch people playing their poker sessions live (with a few minutes delay for obvious reasons) whilst the host talks about their play and interracts with the chat.

I, and I'm sure many others find this type of learning environment less intense and more fun than coaching videos.

I would recccommend pokerstaples and jcarverpoker for poker tournaments, both stream most days from 5pm UK time until late.

http://www.twitch.tv/jcarverpoker

percival09

Both playing and studying are of equal importance. Playing allows you to pick up experience that will be invaluable in the months to come, just getting used to spots that arise will help you play those same spots in the future. Studying allows you to take your game to the next level and you should try and do some of this every day, or if not, every other day. 

Your poker game needs to be both maintained and improved, so by playing regularly you're maintaining your game, and by studying you're improving it. Studying without playing I think is a pretty large mistake for most people because we learn most effectively by actually putting some of what we've learnt into action.

Chicken points out some good methods for improving your game 

Sky_Dan

I agree with a lot of the above. I have started watching Twitch more and more and find it a really good source of material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbRxckGbV1o

This is one of my favourite hands analysed by a pro - Jungleman in this case. What a boss!

I have a few friends who have had coaching from experienced players - Sky Kirsty actually had some online training from Maria Ho (good birthday present or what?) and she said it improved her game massively and taught her different levels of thinking. It's pretty expensive though eh? I'm not quite ready to drop £500 on that sort of thing!

Tikay10

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

I agree with a lot of the above. I have started watching Twitch more and more and find it a really good source of material. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbRxckGbV1o This is one of my favourite hands analysed by a pro - Jungleman in this case. What a boss! I have a few friends who have had coaching from experienced players - Sky Kirsty actually had some online training from Maria Ho (good birthday present or what?) and she said it improved her game massively and taught her different levels of thinking. It's pretty expensive though eh? I'm not quite ready to drop £500 on that sort of thing!
Posted by Sky_Dan

To be fair, Dan, silk purse & pigs ear come to mind.

alex1229

Twitch - I was watching a lot of Jason Sommerville on twitch - one thing he's obsessed about is pot odds & people folding in the BB when they've got massive odds to call (not tooooo relevant to sky as theres no antes) that made me think bit differently, and play more hands.

Book - As mentioned before Chris Moormans book is also a enjoyable read and raises lots of interesting thoughts.

Youtube - i'd recommend watching Phil Galford, he's got lots of training videos where hes playing hi stakes cash games, he really rams home the important of thinking about what you're repping to the opponent, and if it's credible. 

3 top players, all with very different styles but a lot to take from all of them.

chicknMelt

Yeh, very good point dohhh - for a lot of players i'd imagine twitch is the go to place for entertainment/ learning. I have watched Jcarvers one a few times and always found it interesting and informative. Not seen staples one, but he got signed by stars for it and has a massive following too, so cant imagine it being any different.

Sky Dan - There are plenty of places to get coaching for ALOT less that £500! typical prices I have seen go from $50 an hr for a decent winning but unknown online player, up to around $2k an hr. I just think its about finding the right level of coach for your game... no point spending $2k an hr on Venessa Selbst when you play £11 bh's, however, spending a couple of hundred on a few hours with a cheaper coach would probably pay for itself relatively quickly.

Another thing that no one has mentioned yet I dont think: when your at things like the UKPC, make sure you introduce yourself to some other good players and pick their brains! Most people, especially sky players are very friendly and would be happy to offer advice.

Jac35

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Yeh, very good point dohhh - for a lot of players i'd imagine twitch is the go to place for entertainment/ learning. I have watched Jcarvers one a few times and always found it interesting and informative. Not seen staples one, but he got signed by stars for it and has a massive following too, so cant imagine it being any different. Sky Dan - There are plenty of places to get coaching for ALOT less that £500! typical prices I have seen go from $50 an hr for a decent winning but unknown online player, up to around $2k an hr. I just think its about finding the right level of coach for your game... no point spending $2k an hr on Venessa Selbst when you play £11 bh's, however, spending a couple of hundred on a few hours with a cheaper coach would probably pay for itself relatively quickly. Another thing that no one has mentioned yet I dont think: when your at things like the UKPC, make sure you introduce yourself to some other good players and pick their brains! Most people, especially sky players are very friendly and would be happy to offer advice.
Posted by chicknMelt

That's a good shout Andy. I did that myself at one of the SPTs. I picked Lamberts brains for a while.

I think it's just an unfortunate coincidence that I've never won anything since.

GELDY

Crazy though it might sound I actually found playing some Omaha was very good for my nlhe as it makes you really focus on your opponents possible hands. Worrying about their hand more helps break the fascination with our own. 

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Where are you from Donald, your accent sounds yorkshire?
Posted by mumsie

Hi Mummsie, Originally from Paisley Scotland but been in North Yorkshire for 24 years now.

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Just get as much practice in as possible on the table, theres a lot of stuff you just pick up over time. If you have an interesting hand, or one you are unsure about, post it up in the poker clinic. There is a lot of decent streams on twitch too, Jason Sommerville is really good at talking through his thought process and why he played a hand a certain way.
Posted by LARSON7

Thanks for the advice. I believe that a good mix of playing and learning is the best way. I'll look at the twitch streems thanks.

I'll try to post some hands too.

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

there are loads of ways to improve your game: books, training videos, talking through hands with (preferably) better players, hand analysis tools etc. In my opinion, the amount of studying you put in will directly correlate with how successful you are as a player. It is true that you can/will pick things up just by playing, but the process will be alot slower. I would say that books/ taining videos/ watching other good players discuss hands (twitch) are going to be fairly effective at helping you pick up new strategies and exlaining new concepts to you. By far the quickest way (and most expensive, obviously) is 1-1 coaching. This is because your coach will be able to spot things that you do wrong that maybe you hadn't even considered before, point out where you are applying certain concepts in the wrong way, and will generally plug all your biggest leaks in a short period of time. I think probably the best book around at the moment is chris moormans one, although it is aimed at intermediate + players. there are plenty of good books for beginners. as for training videos, there are some free ones on youtube (although the quality is mixed, there are plenty of very good ones). There are also premium sites that charge you a monthly fee, and include videos from some of the games top players, such as cardrunners or runitonce. There are tools to help you analyse hands: flopzilla - for understanding how certain ranges hit certain boards, cardrunnersev - for understanding the lines that will give you the highest expected value on certain boards, propokertools/ pokerstove - for understanding hand equities vs other hands/ ranges. I've PM'd you about 1-1 coaching too if that is of interest.
Posted by chicknMelt

Really appreciate your time to reply to this in so much depth. I'm half way through Chris Mooman's book for the third time - takes the level of thinking to a new level. I haven't got your PM yet. Do I need to look somewhere for it?

Thanks again,

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Hi Donald, All the advice so far is good. Only thing I'd add is you mentioned Sharkscope. All that does is "keep score", & helps you compare your ability with others - that aside, it does not teach you anything. Also, as someone noted, try "The Poker Clinic", you'll get tons of advice on there.  
Posted by Tikay10

Thanks for that TK and I'll try to post hands.

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

In Response to Re: How can I improve? : it does have some decent training vids but only if you become a member, if you know anyone with a subscription that wouldnt mind giving you their login details they are worth watching
Posted by RLT16

Thanks for that but I can't see the training vids in the procing structure. Am I missing something?

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

A fairly new, and in my opinion under-rated way of learning for recreational players is twitch.tv. http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Poker It allows you to watch people playing their poker sessions live (with a few minutes delay for obvious reasons) whilst the host talks about their play and interracts with the chat. I, and I'm sure many others find this type of learning environment less intense and more fun than coaching videos. I would recccommend pokerstaples and jcarverpoker for poker tournaments, both stream most days from 5pm UK time until late. http://www.twitch.tv/jcarverpoker
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I'll have a look. Many thanks,

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Both playing and studying are of equal importance. Playing allows you to pick up experience that will be invaluable in the months to come, just getting used to spots that arise will help you play those same spots in the future. Studying allows you to take your game to the next level and you should try and do some of this every day, or if not, every other day.  Your poker game needs to be both maintained and improved, so by playing regularly you're maintaining your game, and by studying you're improving it. Studying without playing I think is a pretty large mistake for most people because we learn most effectively by actually putting some of what we've learnt into action. Chicken points out some good methods for improving your game 
Posted by percival09

Couldn't agree with this more. Playing without studying will repeat the same mistakes with very slow improvement. Studying without playing doesn't give you the feedback or enjoyment. Need a good balance.

Thanks,

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

I agree with a lot of the above. I have started watching Twitch more and more and find it a really good source of material. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbRxckGbV1o This is one of my favourite hands analysed by a pro - Jungleman in this case. What a boss! I have a few friends who have had coaching from experienced players - Sky Kirsty actually had some online training from Maria Ho (good birthday present or what?) and she said it improved her game massively and taught her different levels of thinking. It's pretty expensive though eh? I'm not quite ready to drop £500 on that sort of thing!
Posted by Sky_Dan

Hi Dan, Great job at the UKPC by the way - really appreciated the posts. 

Great thinking y Jungleman to be able to make that call with such confidence. Coaching would be nice but as a rec player may not be affordable. Worth looiking into though.

Thanks,

Donald

thisltedu

In Response to Re: How can I improve?:

Twitch - I was watching a lot of Jason Sommerville on twitch - one thing he's obsessed about is pot odds & people folding in the BB when they've got massive odds to call (not tooooo relevant to sky as theres no antes) that made me think bit differently, and play more hands. Book - As mentioned before Chris Moormans book is also a enjoyable read and raises lots of interesting thoughts. Youtube - i'd recommend watching Phil Galford, he's got lots of training videos where hes playing hi stakes cash games, he really rams home the important of thinking about what you're repping to the opponent, and if it's credible.  3 top players, all with very different styles but a lot to take from all of them.
Posted by alex1229

Thanks Alex, I'll hve a look at them all.

Donald

percival09

don't get me wrong, I think Twitch is a pretty cool thing. 

I don't think that we should call it studying though. In my eyes, that's just an excuse for people who aren't properly studying. 

"so, you do any studying yesterday?"

"yeah man loads, I watched 9 hours straight of jcarver playing spin & go's. **** loved it m8 xxx"

I think it's an informative tool, but don't kid yourself, you'll need to do plenty more