Timebank argument

Itsover4u

As i derailed a previous post earlier I have taken Tikays advice to post a slight concern of mine.

Now this wont be for everyone but I think at the higher limits of MTTS cash and sngs it would be massively beneficial.

I for one play more than 1 table usually around 10 - 16 if I am having an MTT session 6-8 for cash and 4 for HUSNGS - I find myself really struggling when playing across multiple sites to keep myself sitting in with sky.

I would figure the majority of players playing the roller / mains etc would also be playing multiple other tables.

My major argumennt is not that I cant keep the tables going but that I do indeed struggle to come up with the correct logical move to make and get forced into a decision (with the time permitted) --- this game after all is a game of skill and I will promote that until the end.

It does not need to be anything drastic a 30 second time bank replenished by 15 seconds every hour would suit just fine. The last thing I would want is to disrupte the flow of a game or anybodys enjoyment but realistically 30 seconds x 6 players is 3 minutes and it would be extremely unlikely that everybody would use the entire timebank in the same hour.

This would not be of benefit to just multi table players but also the recs who may need breathing space to make that tough decision, giving them a chance to develop the neccesary thought patterns to become a succesful player & make tough spote more "standard"

I do hope this can be taken into consideration

Danny

Tikay10

Thanks Danny.

Let's get some other feedback going, then I can get it sent upstairs.

I'm pretty sure a clear answer would be forthcoming, but it would be good if plenty of people aired their view, rather than, as is usually the case, just those in favour.

jordz16

Not for me.

I see why people would want them introduced, but the ability to make decisions quickly is a big part of what makes an online poker player. if you start introducing timebanks then i think that gives the multi-tabling pros a bigger advantage to play more tables and to higher ability and i wouldnt like to see that, also it will be abused at certain points in the tournament, Bubble, Ft bubble etc which will slow the game down and make it far more boring for everyone. does a 1 tabling rec want to be waiting 3+ minutes just to fold their hand?

MAXALLY

Not really for or against, but can totally understand the possible need for multi tablers. Also, if introduced, it will have to be across the board.

How about a forum reading timebank too?

If it ends 0-0, the Competition is void, but we'll repeat it next weekend. 

Itsover4u

much appreciated sir

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

much appreciated sir
Posted by Itsover4u

How would you counter the points put forward by jordz?

I'm not trying to put words into anyone's mouth, just get a good civilised debate going.

jordz16

That being said, from a personal point of view I'm sure if there was a timebank it would be far more lucrative for me as I could add a couple more tables, So i certainly wouldnt be complaining, I just think it may slightly reduce the enjoyment factor and thats more important for the masses imo

shakinaces

From the cash perspective, if timebanks were introduced, would it be an option to have speed (no timebank) and normal tables, so if recreational players hated slow play they just avoid the normal games altogether?

If it is that big an issue to the recs then they'd all join speed tables only and the regs would (mostly) be forced to play those games anyway.

I'd love to have them personally, and I don't even play DTM-volume of tables, I'm just old and slow and need to (over)think things through before leveling myself into making a h#sh of an otherwise easy decision.

ps why is h#sh on the banned words list?

jordz16

That being said, from a personal point of view I'm sure if there was a timebank it would be far more lucrative for me as I could add a couple more tables, So i certainly wouldnt be complaining, I just think it may slightly reduce the enjoyment factor and thats more important for the masses imo

Itsover4u

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

Not for me. I see why people would want them introduced, but the ability to make decisions quickly is a big part of what makes an online poker player. if you start introducing timebanks then i think that gives the multi-tabling pros a bigger advantage to play more tables and to higher ability and i wouldnt like to see that, also it will be abused at certain points in the tournament, Bubble, Ft bubble etc which will slow the game down and make it far more boring for everyone. does a 1 tabling rec want to be waiting 3+ minutes just to fold their hand?
Posted by jordz16

ability to make decisions quickly is a big part of what makes an online poker player.

Correct online poker is much faster - But the ability to make the correct decisions is what differentiates this game from gambling now I dont play £5 / £10 but I sure would hate having to make a marginal 20 second decision in a pot for 10k.

i think that gives the multi-tabling pros a bigger advantage to play more tables and to higher ability

I dont think playing more tables would be an issue, if a rec is playing at 200 or 500 no limit then they will learn there lesson pretty quick timebank or no timebank. A timebank would not make me play more tables it would allow me to make more critical decisions

abused at certain points in the tournament, Bubble, Ft bubble

MTTs are played hand for hand on the bubble there is zero incentive to abuse a timebank and even if somebody does it would be between 0 - 30 seconds and it could not be done again

1 tabling rec want to be waiting 3+ minutes just to fold their hand?

The assumption here is every player in 1 hand uses every second of there timebank I would put the odds of this happening at around 1,000,000 to 1

What it will allow recs to do is find a little bit of calm in the madness of a mtt - I know when I first started playing I made terrible decisions rushing to press buttons

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

From the cash perspective, if timebanks were introduced, would it be an option to have speed (no timebank) and normal tables, so if recreational players hated slow play they just avoid the normal games altogether? If it is that big an issue to the recs then they'd all join speed tables only and the regs would (mostly) be forced to play those games anyway. I'd love to have them personally, and I don't even play DTM-volume of tables, I'm just old and slow and need to (over)think things through before leveling myself into making a h#sh of an otherwise easy decision. ps why is h#sh on the banned words list?
Posted by shakinaces

Ha!

Don't even go there, the wonders of this forum software, but we have to play the hands we are dealt.

I imagine because it has a recreational drug connotation. Like I say, don't ask. Please.

F_Ivanovic

I've gone back and forth between thinking time banks are a good thing or not. I play anywhere between 3 and 6 tables so most of the time I'm fine - the only exception is when I find I'm playing in multiple hands at once and then suddenly the 15 (or is it 20?) seconds we have doesn't seem enough. 

I've played on the big name site before and there are a number of reasons why I don't like it but the action seems to go so much slower which annoys me.

Mass grinders are bad for the game too for a number of reasons so having less time to act is a way to reduce their ability to mass table. 

I think overall I would like a timebank providing it isn't too long.

Itsover4u

"I think overall I would like a timebank providing it isn't too long."

This is the key point.... it does not need to be excessive 20 seconds per hour even would be fine. during a normal hour of mtts you will have tough spots on similtaneous tables at least once and have marginal "extra thinking" spot a least once per hour

MattBates

The bubble for the roller will end up one of the most painful things on the site with a timebank. Its bad enough with stalling as it is!

Itsover4u

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

The bubble for the roller will end up one of the most painful things on the site with a timebank. Its bad enough with stalling as it is!
Posted by MattBates

Is it not hand for hand? there is no point to stalling if so

churchy18

no thanks and here is some of the old forum posts about it including 1 from you last year.


https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3ae2df2adc-5664-4e45-b422-c46d93317ba5&plckFindPostKey=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:df77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion:e2df2adc-5664-4e45-b422-c46d93317ba5Post:579023f8-387e-48a5-a822-dc2d62847356


https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3a527b3f5e-e363-4060-a8e6-21ada2f64d50&plckFindPostKey=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:df77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion:527b3f5e-e363-4060-a8e6-21ada2f64d50Post:71881e89-dfd6-4d94-ac6e-c8217897dd28

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3a7a11e75c-6a71-4bab-a823-5c4430d9ad6a&plckFindPostKey=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:df77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion:7a11e75c-6a71-4bab-a823-5c4430d9ad6aPost:b2f9d860-0800-4847-bdcc-a4b8a02646a6

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3afda17c4a-7d79-44b1-be42-5e47cf82340e&plckFindPostKey=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:df77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion:fda17c4a-7d79-44b1-be42-5e47cf82340ePost:ce80417f-c705-411d-8b69-0dc6944d3deb

MattBates

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

In Response to Re: Timebank argument : Is it not hand for hand? there is no point to stalling if so
Posted by Itsover4u

There may be no point but players still do it!

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

In Response to Re: Timebank argument : Is it not hand for hand? there is no point to stalling if so
Posted by Itsover4u

It is H4H, but, inexplicably, the "stalling" starts several spots before the bubble.

Have to say, in Live Poker, it is far worse. In a typical WSOP event in Las Vegas, it can take up to a an hour.   

reeler

i have an idea but it might be daft why dont u charge a big blind for an extra 20 seconds it gets added to the pot just an idea

percival09

The biggest issue from the timebank sceptics seems to be the length of timebank, which is a fine issue to have. 

There is a beyond simple solution to this, just make the timebank 10 seconds. 

This should satisfy all parties to a certain extent and take nothing away from the game. 

Personally, I think 30 seconds is fine. I think people are exaggerating the time wasters, and as touched on by op, poker is a tough game. Some decisions are not so easy and I think allowing your players to have that extra few seconds to (in their opinion) make a better decision is a very reasonable thing to do.

percival09

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

i have an idea but it might be daft why dont u charge a big blind for an extra 20 seconds it gets added to the pot just an idea
Posted by reeler

to be blunt, worst idea itt

GaryQQQ

It doesn't make sense to introduce a new function to please the tiny percentage of players who are multi-site multi-table grinders at the inconvenience of the majority. Most Sky players, including me, have no need for a timebank and would find it an irritation imo.

YoungUn

I'd like to see a timebank but - not sure I've seen this point raised yet - it should be activated voluntarily i.e. you have to click the timebank button to use it. I haven't played on Stars (or any other site, for that matter) in a ruddy long time, so this might have changed, but it used to bug me that the timebanks would automatically come into play if a player hadn't acted within the regulation time. Opening hands of Tournaments were a huge drag because of this and it's just not necessary.

And while I tend to agree with points like GaryQQQ's, I still see enough recs take time over some decisions that they will still find it useful and hence it won't be such an advantage for the multi-site, multi-table players that are asking for this.

percival09

It's 10 seconds that won't be used very often, and when it is used, a decent % of the time it will be used by people who maybe went to make a coffee, or had to answer the door, and the timebank saved them from folding. so it's not just for multi-table grinders, it can be used by everyone. I know a lot of recreational players who like browing the internet when they're 1 or 2 tabling on Sky, and it's very easy for them to time out. This leads me to believe the small inconvenience caused for some is outweighed by the small (but bigger) benefit that comes from just having 10 additional seconds. 

Now, once this 10 seconds has been used up by a player, then perhaps it's gone for that entire hour and they get 5 seconds the next hour. This avoids exploitation of the timebank. 

daggers747

I agree the vast majority of players on sky are not inconvenienced by time issues.

No change for me.

However talking of banks I wonder if any one can let me know where the nearest
food bank is situated.

Times are hard, and my cat has moved away.

Daggers.

Tikay10

See "Parkinson's Law".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law

In brief, if you give people more time to complete a task (or space, or whatever) you can be sure they will use it.

paige55

Today i have been Married for 33 years,Do i need a time bank NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

percival09

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

See "Parkinson's Law". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law In brief, if you give people more time to complete a task (or space, or whatever) you can be sure they will use it.
Posted by Tikay10

Sure, let's decrease the current timer to 5 seconds then. It's all about getting the balance right, and at the moment I don't think it is for reasons outlined above. 

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

In Response to Re: Timebank argument : Sure, let's decrease the current timer to 5 seconds then. It's all about getting the balance right, and at the moment I don't think it is for reasons outlined above. 
Posted by percival09

That's what the thread is about.

tomgoodun

Personally I make my decision in the first 5 seconds, may make me a bad rec but thats the way it is. I feel if timebanks were introduced it would have a detrimental effect on small stakes tournament players like myself,and I could envisage myself playing less and getting discouraged from playing.

 I can understand the point for higher stakes players, but as mentioned balance is the key and moving forward it is recs like myself who are the bread and butter of the game.

tomgoodun

In Response to Re: Timebank argument:

Today i have been Married for 33 years,Do i need a time bank NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Posted by paige55

Happy anniversary, have a wonderful day-thats quite an achievment in this day and age.x