Another JJ hand at the end of this thread!

Seagull158

Im not one of these players who say "play jacks carefully early on" - I play the game as I see it, no matter what stage of the tourny it is, I always raise big pre flop with jacks. - Thats the only criticsm I can find with this hand.

Maybe bet pot on the flop, but its not gonna make a difference, if hes calling pre with 8-6, he aint going away when hes hit top pair.

Inevitably people are gonna say raise more pre, but Id like to see some replies from the people who say playing jacks cautiously pre flop early on is the way forward. - This is a classic example of WHY I believe u shudnt!

Limp n call in front of u and players behind, Im raising 150 at least. Take it down there. Also, the flop is nice for jacks, having built the pot pre, a pot sized bet on the flop wud be alot more significant, and maybe the guy folds or shoves. Makes it alot easier to play the turn too.

DOHH

Seagull158

This was the third hand of an MTT. No knowledge of the villain.

Hand History #227781926 (15:23 27/01/2010)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Seagull158	Small blind		10.00	10.00	1970.00
Aces_Low	Big blind		20.00	30.00	2130.00
	Your hole cards	J J
sooty17	Fold
Villain	Raise		40.00	70.00	1960.00
madsotsm30	Fold
MrEdd	Call		40.00	110.00	1890.00
Seagull158	Raise		80.00	190.00	1890.00
Aces_Low	Fold
Villain	Call		50.00	240.00	1910.00
MrEdd	Call		50.00	290.00	1840.00
Flop
		8 2 6
Seagull158	Bet		200.00	490.00	1690.00
Villain	Call		200.00	690.00	1710.00
MrEdd	Call		200.00	890.00	1640.00
Turn
		9
Seagull158	Bet		400.00	1290.00	1290.00
Villain	Raise		800.00	2090.00	910.00
MrEdd	Fold
Seagull158	All-in		1290.00	3380.00	0.00
Villain	All-in		910.00	4290.00	0.00
Villain	Unmatched bet		20.00	4270.00	20.00
Seagull158	Show	J J
Villain	Show	9 6
River
		4
Villain	Win	Two Pairs, 9s and 6s	4270.00		4290.00

Dudeskin8

Probably need to raise more pre, doubling his raise serves no real purpose other than giving him odds to call.

Only 200 into 290 on flop is not enough imo, needs to be much close to 300. Although saying this, he still called with 2nd pair no kicker, so propbably would have still called lol.

Finally after his raise on the turn I'd just fold, frustrating fold but has to be done. His raise has to be representing more than top pair.

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Should I lay this down? What about bet sizing?:

Probably need to raise more pre, doubling his raise serves no real purpose other than giving him odds to call. Only 200 into 290 on flop is not enough imo, needs to be much close to 300. Although saying this, he still called with 2nd pair no kicker, so propbably would have still called lol. Finally after his raise on the turn I'd just fold, frustrating fold but has to be done. His raise has to be representing more than top pair.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Yep, I agree with both of your comments (and with Dohhhhh also). I didnt think enough about the PF raise and I didnt think at all about the shove. I instashoved after he raised me and I got what I deserved.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Should I lay this down? What about bet sizing?:

In Response to Re: Should I lay this down? What about bet sizing? : Yep, I agree with both of your comments (and with Dohhhhh also). I didnt think enough about the PF raise and I didnt think at all about the shove. I instashoved after he raised me and I got what I deserved.
Posted by Seagull158

With his reraise he leaves himself 900 so will never fold now, showing you he wants the call or shove.

Talon

  I have major problems with this whole hand every step of the way. The first min raise from early position was such a joke. Your reraise was no better. So we are 3 handed to a flop that has been 3-bet pre and there are only 15BB in the middle which has shown major weakness all round. You are not getting anyone to fold with your c-bet of 2/3 of the pot because you have not shown any great strength. This is both good and bad for you because it increases the pot nicely but increases your chance of being outdrawn.Your turn bet was strange because it was very weak at less than 1/2 the pot but also committing yourself to any reraise.Overall i dont think it could have been played much worse.

   JJ is the hardest hand to play and arguements can be made for playing hard or limping in. You however did neither and fell into the trap of playing weakly whilst giving all your chips away. Either play hard or soft, dont allow yourself to fall into the middle ground.

BrownnDog

You should of re raised more preflop and bet bet more on the flop. If you did this It probably would have got all in on the flop anyway and he will of just got lucky. On the turn you just have to go with it after putting so much of your stack in. There are also many hands that would play this way that you're beating such as any 8x, 10 10,  or he might be making some goofy play with a 7 or turned flush draw or he might be putting you on two over cards and trying to take it away from you cheap. And apart from this you are getting the right price to draw out on him.




All the best


Browndog

unknown_username

Definately want to be raising ALOT more preflop. Min 3betting is just building the pot and giving them value to call.

3 Way on the flop you want to be betting pot and shutting it down. He's not played it great either but you could have taken this pot down much earlier I think.

The way it played out I wouldn't be getting away from it, but I'd hope to have won it before the flop or on the flop.

Seagull158

Difficult to believe but......THIRD hand of next MTT and I get JJ again!!!
How did I do this time?

Hand History #227837918 (19:06 27/01/2010)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Seagull158	Small blind		10.00	10.00	2470.00
muslu	Big blind		20.00	30.00	2240.00
	Your hole cards	J J
KPB666	Fold
PIE	Fold
rolo123	Call		20.00	50.00	2420.00
nat1	Call		20.00	70.00	2450.00
Seagull158	Raise		160.00	230.00	2310.00
muslu	Call		150.00	380.00	2090.00
rolo123	Fold
nat1	Fold
Flop
		10 2 3
Seagull158	Bet		360.00	740.00	1950.00
muslu	Call		360.00	1100.00	1730.00
Turn
		8
Seagull158	Bet		600.00	1700.00	1350.00
muslu	Call		600.00	2300.00	1130.00
River
		9
Seagull158	Check
muslu	Check
Seagull158	Show	J J
muslu	Muck	K 10
Seagull158	Win	Pair of Jacks	2300.00		3650.00

unknown_username

That was well played mate.

Maybe slightly bigger bet on the turn though.

Good check on the river too.

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Another JJ hand at the end of this thread!:

That was well played mate. Maybe slightly bigger bet on the turn though. Good check on the river too.
Posted by Deadluck

1000 on the turn?

unknown_username

Yeh I'd go 800-1000. Thats more how u wana play them though. hard n fast.

donkeyplop

i made sure of winning this hand with 4 jacks lol! i went crazy on the river didnt value bet just got exited!
should i of just called the raise after the flop to try and trap?

Hand History #228158925 (20:24 28/01/2010)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
RainMan007	Small blind		25.00	25.00	1610.00
pl2511	Big blind		50.00	75.00	2350.00
	Your hole cards	J J
LAZLO1	Call		50.00	125.00	2100.00
Darntootin	Fold
donkeyplop	Raise		150.00	275.00	1540.00
JIMMY14	Fold
RainMan007	Fold
pl2511	Call		100.00	375.00	2250.00
LAZLO1	Call		100.00	475.00	2000.00
Flop
		9 J 4
pl2511	Check
LAZLO1	Bet		50.00	525.00	1950.00
donkeyplop	Raise		100.00	625.00	1440.00
pl2511	Fold
LAZLO1	Call		50.00	675.00	1900.00
Turn
		J
LAZLO1	Check
donkeyplop	Check
River
		A
LAZLO1	Check
donkeyplop	All-in		1440.00	2115.00	0.00
LAZLO1	Fold
donkeyplop	Muck
donkeyplop	Win		2115.00		2115.00