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Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer

edited September 2015 in Poker Chat
I see this a lot on Sky and generally I think it's a really scummy thing to do, especially when it's so obvious at times. I've seen players literally chase a player around a table. Same goes for players who will sit out while a bad player is sitting out.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • edited September 2015
    I guess if you play cash poker to make money then you are going to give yourself the best edge possible. I dont see a problem with it personally, but then again i dont play much cash poker.
  • edited September 2015
    Be funny how it would go down in a live cash game :) 

  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    Be funny how it would go down in a live cash game :) 
    Posted by Nuggy962
    Yes, it might well end in either a black eye, or everyone at the table playing a sort of cardroom version of musical chairs, as they all keep moving around to get the best seat.

    I've never had a problem with it. I sit down, & then everyone sits down to my left. Always.
     
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    I see this a lot on Sky and generally I think it's a really scummy thing to do, especially when it's so obvious at times. I've seen players literally chase a player around a table. Same goes for players who will sit out while a bad player is sitting out. Thoughts?
    Posted by WotMalluDo
    Morning Wot,

    I'm afraid it's how poker is. People are playing for money, & do everything they can to gain an advantage. Please don't get fixated about it - it is part & parcel of poker.

    I don't think it's limited to Sky Poker though - far from it.

    In fact, if you want to go play cash on PokerStars, or some of the I-poker sites, the "regulars" have things called "seating scripts" & other third party software that alerts them to your presence. So you find yourself a table that has been empty for hours, take your seat, & then, INSTANTLY, the table will fill with Pros who have been alerted to your presence. They all get position on you, too. How would you like that? Seriously, if that were ever allowed on this site, I'd be down the road in a heartbeat, it's a disgrace. IMO of course.

    Chin up mate, you won't find any site where people don't stretch the rules to the very limit, its just how poker works.
     
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    Be funny how it would go down in a live cash game :) 
    Posted by Nuggy962
    I see this loads live! 
  • edited September 2015
    Imo, it's embarrassing for the players that do it, and embarrassing for the player's on the receiving end of it. I agree with OP it is scummy and is vvv poor for the game. I have nothing against a bit of table selection, that's standard, but specifically hunting vvv weak players, refusing to sit unless one is there, moving seats to get position on them, all that stuff is just the nut low when it comes to etiquette. Some people obviously value money more than anything else.

    Imagine if you're just a rec, a losing player who just plays for a bit of fun, then you have someone constantly standing and then resitting at the same table just so they can be on your left, these people aren't stupid and will notice vvv quickly. Is that the kind of environment people wanna play in?

    The scripts as Tikay mentions is a more extreme example, imagine u just want a bit of a fun gamble, you sit on stars, and literally in a split second there are 5 strong regs on your table, is that gonna encourage you to wanna come back next time? vvv doubtful imo.

    Just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, it's gonna make the recs feel so bad, and it just says a lot about the people who do it who have to rely on ONLY playing people who are vvv poor at the game to win. Fwiw, it's these types of regs that are always the first to go/leave the game, cos games get tougher and they can only cope in games where people will just gift them money.
  • edited September 2015

    I play mostly cash and I do win money very slowly but as it is a hobby I am fine with that as I see it I have a lot of fun and I don't have to pay for it. I do select my tables and yes if I see a player who I think is poor I may sit at their table but my table selection is more to keep away from the regulars if there is one or two fine but anymore than this and I will try and find another table unless all the tables are filled with regs' then I will play. It is a bit sad to just look for the easy players but if you see them at a good table why not sit down.  On other sites it is much worse.

  • edited September 2015

    I was discussing this elsewhere a week or so ago and being told I'm missing value for just not being able to bring myself to move seats mid-game.  That said, I did do it once in response to someone moving on me, it was quite amusing as we kept chasing around the table, just needed the download client to be capable of playing the Benny Hill theme tune when it happens :)

    I don't see anything wrong with purposely picking softer tables and taking position on 'weaker' players, that just seems like common sense and I genuinely don't understand why regular players would actively choose to play against players they have no edge/very marginal edge vs (especially when factoring in the rake). 

    The seating scripts are a bit dodgier and am really happy that (to my knowledge), Sky don't allow these.

  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    In Response to Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer : Morning Wot, I'm afraid it's how poker is. People are playing for money, & do everything they can to gain an advantage. Please don't get fixated about it - it is part & parcel of poker. I don't think it's limited to Sky Poker though - far from it. In fact, if you want to go play cash on PokerStars, or some of the I-poker sites, the "regulars" have things called "seating scripts" & other third party software that alerts them to your presence. So you find yourself a table that has been empty for hours, take your seat, & then, INSTANTLY, the table will fill with Pros who have been alerted to your presence. They all get position on you, too. How would you like that? Seriously, if that were ever allowed on this site, I'd be down the road in a heartbeat, it's a disgrace. IMO of course. Chin up mate, you won't find any site where people don't stretch the rules to the very limit, its just how poker works.  
    Posted by Tikay10
    Always hear people moaning about seating scripts, but obvious cant be that much of a problem, otherwise you would just vote with your feet, can these things work on any site ie here?. Think the best solution to stop these guys would be to go the Unibet route and just auto seat you at tables which also kills bum hunting.
    I see this a lot on Sky and generally I think it's a really scummy thing to do, especially when it's so obvious at times. I've seen players literally chase a player around a table. Same goes for players who will sit out while a bad player is sitting out. Thoughts?
    Posted by WotMalluDo
    I have done this once but not to gain position so I could be out of position versus an aggro fish, if you checked your value at him he would just pot every street with air. If you was in position wouldn't get anything out of him.
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer : Always hear people moaning about seating scripts, but obvious cant be that much of a problem, otherwise you would just vote with your feet, can these things work on any site ie here?. Think the best solution to stop these guys would be to go the Unibet route and just auto seat you at tables which also kills bum hunting. I have done this once but not to gain position so I could be out of position versus an aggro fish, if you checked your value at him he would just pot every street with air. If you was in position wouldn't get anything out of him.
    Posted by HaveaA1Day
    Recreational players ARE voting with their feet. They (seating scripts) could not work on Sky Poker, no, because the Business would not allow them to.  

    I'm not sure I like the Unibet solution. (It makes players anon). If I play poker, I accumulate experience against certain players, as to how they play, their tendencies, that IS poker, & using that knowledge is part of the game to me.
     
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer : Always hear people moaning about seating scripts, but obvious cant be that much of a problem, otherwise you would just vote with your feet, can these things work on any site ie here?. Think the best solution to stop these guys would be to go the Unibet route and just auto seat you at tables which also kills bum hunting. I have done this once but not to gain position so I could be out of position versus an aggro fish, if you checked your value at him he would just pot every street with air. If you was in position wouldn't get anything out of him.
    Posted by HaveaA1Day
    Do you not think the rec players are doing this?
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    I'm not sure I like the Unibet solution. (It makes players anon). If I play poker, I accumulate experience against certain players, as to how they play, their tendencies, that IS poker, & using that knowledge is part of the game to me.  
    Posted by Tikay10
    There not anon tables there technically because you have a screen name, but you get 5 sn's and can keep changing, so pretty much makes them anon :) . Just remembered now, better example would be the new changes at FTP same system as Unibet but you cant change your sn.
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer : Do you not think the rec players are doing this?
    Posted by MattBates
    No dont think most even know about this stuff, was thinking more about all the regs I know that moan about this stuff, yet everyday there there grinding away.
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer : There not anon tables there technically because you have a screen name, but you get 5 sn's and can keep changing, so pretty much makes them anon :). Just remembered now, better example would be the new changes at FTP same system as Unibet but you cant change your sn. No dont think most even know about this stuff, was thinking more about all the regs I know that moan about this stuff, yet everyday there there grinding away.
    Posted by HaveaA1Day
    Exactly - they are, in effect, "Anon" tables, & personally, I'm not keen on that. But it defeats the use of HUD's, so on balance, I think it's good.
     
    The odd thing about the HUD debate is that the people who use them, almost without exception, claim they give them little or no advantage. Which, of course, begs a question. ;)

    I was talking to a pal of mine who plays a lot of chess, & as you may know, in Chess, there is tons of computer analysis available, every game played by elite players exists on databases. However, when they sit down to play in real-life - as in poker - none of that is allowed. It's 1 on 1, & may the best man win.    


  • edited September 2015
    I think a recreational player, who can play poker to a certain level, would be able to spot a 'rinser' and move on. Those who can't are going to lose money to whoever they play.

    After I'd been bitten once, I'd be using my own list to decide who not to play.

    When you're in a tournament, you've got what you've got. In cash games, either player can walk away.
  • edited September 2015
    I guess if you play cash poker to make money then you are going to give yourself the best edge possible. I dont see a problem with it personally, but then again i dont play much cash poker.
    Posted by jordz16
    Does that mean slowrolling is acceptable if it makes an opponent tilt after the hand? There's lots of things you can do to push the tiny edges. Buttoning someone when a table is breaking (raising the BTN then not playing your BB). Some things are just more scummy than others.
    Imagine if you're just a rec, a losing player who just plays for a bit of fun, then you have someone constantly standing and then resitting at the same table just so they can be on your left, these people aren't stupid and will notice vvv quickly. Is that the kind of environment people wanna play in? Posted by Lambert180
    Exactly this.

    "Anon" tables, & personally, I'm not keen on that. But it defeats the use of HUD's, so on balance, I think it's good.   The odd thing about the HUD debate is that the people who use them, almost without exception, claim they give them little or no advantage. Which, of course, begs a question. ;)   
    Posted by Tikay10
    I've played on sites before with Anon tables, hated them. As for HUDs they clearly are very useful if you know how to interprut the information correctly. I'm also very happy that they're can't be used on Sky. I hope that it'll stay this way.
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    Does that mean slowrolling is acceptable if it makes an opponent tilt after the hand? There's lots of things you can do to push the tiny edges. Buttoning someone when a table is breaking (raising the BTN then not playing your BB). Some things are just more scummy than others. Exactly this. I've played on sites before with Anon tables, hated them. As for HUDs they clearly are very useful if you know how to interprut the information correctly. I'm also very happy that they're can't be used on Sky. I hope that it'll stay this way.
    Posted by WotMalluDo

    I dont think you can compare the two... I mainly play MTT's so slowrolling pretty much only occurs when taking someones MTT life so there is no benefit to slowrolling... if someone does slowroll me i generally tag them in my notes as a bit of a ****. But yeah i think you have to push as many tiny edges as you can. There is a grey area in terms of the boundries allowed, When I play live and online i like to talk to certain players where possible, sometimes i will even make a sly dig or sarcastic comment but only if i think it will benefit me in the future, I see no problem with that but would draw the line at being abusive or name calling  or making them feel unwelcome etc. I think seat hopping is immoral and against the spirit of the game for sure I guess its a normal part of being a cash reg these days, and its one of the many reasons that cash poker has never appealed to me.
  • edited September 2015
    having a dig at a player isn't immoral? 
  • edited September 2015
    In Response to Re: Seat hoping in cash games to gain position on a weak/recreational palyer:
    having a dig at a player isn't immoral? 
    Posted by percival09

    Not at all, you can look at it in someways and say playing poker agaisnt someone you know you are far better than and will take money off is immoral, but thats just poker, win or lose when i finish a game of poker I'll wish everyone good luck and if im at a live game I'll shake everyones hand and wish them all the best. What goes on when you are at the table is just all part of poker... I play a lot of football too, you have 90 minutes of being kicked, stamped on, shirt pulled, sworn at etc its all very "immoral", but when the games are done you all shake hands, get changed and have a laugh and a pint together. thats the way i see poker, its a game, everyone plays differently, everyone behaves differently, but it all stays at the table and shouldnt ever affect your mood/life outside of poker so whats the harm.
  • edited September 2015
    well, congratulations for not defending your position at all. How is having a dig at someone in the expectation to further your profit different to those three things you mentioned (abuse, name calling, making them feel unwelcome). Is it not immoral because you're doing it to increase your profit and that's "the way it is"? 
  • edited September 2015
    As far as I am aware Abuse, Name calling and making people feel unwelcome are all punishable offenses online and in live poker, and making passing comments to possibly wind up another player is perfectly within the rules?? would you say its immoral to show a bluff knowing that you are doing it to annoy another player?
  • edited September 2015
    So you've changed your line from having a dig at someone to increase profits to making passing comments to possibly wind up your opponent. As far as I'm aware, having a dig at someone is very similar to at least two of those three things you mentioned (namely making people feel unwelcome and abuse) but of course the word "dig" can be interpreted in many different ways, so it's fairly trivial. 
  • edited September 2015
    I was playing live at a major casino when  a player well known as a losing player joined the table in Seat 8. The player in Seat 2 immediately moved to Seat 9, saying it was his lucky seat.

    20 minutes later, the new player lost his stack, reloaded but moved to Seat 2, saying he hoped it would bring him better luck. As it happened, the player in Seat 3 left a few minutes later so the player that moved to Seat 9, moved there. When another player asked him why he had moved, he said that the light was shing in his eyes.

    The player stacked again & when he reloaded, he had to sit in Seat 9 as it was the only seat available. It took the other player a bit of time to get to his left and took him two moves but eventually he got to Seat 1.

    On another occasion, the casino was trying to get a cash game going while players were waiting for a tournament to begin. Everyone said maybe but as soon as the weak player said, "Yes" then the whole table filled with nine players. When he bust ten minutes later and left, all the other players left as well.

    I think that picking your seat when you first sit down is fine but after that, I find it a bit embarrassing when one player targets another player.
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