Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't

Sky_Dan

Sheffield Genting £55 tournament yesterday. Blinds are 1,600/3,200 with 200 ante (I think).

I have 175k, villain has about 250k and has been playing a lot of pots.

villain UTG raises to 8,000. I have 2 sexy red Aces next door to him and I raise to 19,000. Action folds round to him and he calls.

Flop comes Kh 10h 2c. He checks really quickly here and and I get the feeling he has hit this flop. I bet 27k. Villain calls.

Turn 8s. Super quick check from villain here. I bet again, this time 38k. Villain doesn't take too long before shipping it all-in.

I am hating it at this point and I feel pretty sure that I'm beat, but in my head I'm thinking that my small-ish bet on the turn has given him room to think that I might have Queens and I will fold to a shove. My logic might be completely stupid here. I just can't bring myself to fold though and he shows K 10 off which holds.

It's amazing how many times I think I'm beat in live tournaments and still pay the bet off, it's by far my biggest leak. Gotta learn to trust that read.

Anyway should I have 3-bet bigger from that position preflop? Am I giving him too good a price to fold or am I just unlucky to get dogged by a dog hand?

F_Ivanovic

I think you played it fine. Yeah, sometimes you have a feeling you are beat and happen to be right but you want to use them reads in spots that are close. Villain might be giving off tell with AK here - or a nut flush draw (or QhJh) - there are a lot more AK hands than KK/TT or KT (assuming he is only raise/calling KTs UTG) Unlucky anyway. Pre-flop 3bet size is fine... generally you have a super strong range in this spot and villain should have a strong range from UTG so we could make the 3b slightly bigger, but then he might fold his KT. And really we want him calling because most of the time he'll just flop 1 pair at best - which is happy days for us!

bearlyther

Definately calling folding would be a pretty big mistake longterm.  If he had kings he would most likely 4 bet good chance he wont open 2s from utg  wouldnt have k10 in his range either given positions so were mostly losing to pocket 10s only.

Darkangel7

In Response to Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't:

Sheffield Genting £55 tournament yesterday. Blinds are 1,600/3,200 with 200 ante (I think). I have 175k, villain has about 250k and has been playing a lot of pots. villain UTG raises to 8,000. I have 2 sexy red Aces next door to him and I raise to 19,000. Action folds round to him and he calls. Flop comes Kh 10h 2c. He checks really quickly here and and I get the feeling he has hit this flop. I bet 27k. Villain calls. Turn 8s. Super quick check from villain here. I bet again, this time 38k. Villain doesn't take too long before shipping it all-in. I am hating it at this point and I feel pretty sure that I'm beat, but in my head I'm thinking that my small-ish bet on the turn has given him room to think that I might have Queens and I will fold to a shove. My logic might be completely stupid here. I just can't bring myself to fold though and he shows K 10 off which holds. It's amazing how many times I think I'm beat in live tournaments and still pay the bet off, it's by far my biggest leak. Gotta learn to trust that read. Anyway should I have 3-bet bigger from that position preflop? Am I giving him too good a price to fold or am I just unlucky to get dogged by a dog hand?
Posted by Sky_Dan

What you doing on my turf! lmao :P

davelufc

In Response to Re: Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't:

In Response to Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't : What you doing on my turf! lmao :P
Posted by Darkangel7

Hope he bought you a few drinks first!!!!!

Gwan Dan lad ...........

MattBates

In Response to Re: Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't:

In Response to Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't : What you doing on my turf! lmao :P
Posted by Darkangel7

Are you a dealer there?

Darkangel7

In Response to Re: Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't:

In Response to Re: Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't : Are you a dealer there?
Posted by MattBates

Not yet matty was thinking about applying, but think will pass on going for the job there now. Lol

Sir-Gary

In Response to Folding Aces Post-Flop - I Clearly Can't:

Sheffield Genting £55 tournament yesterday. Blinds are 1,600/3,200 with 200 ante (I think). I have 175k, villain has about 250k and has been playing a lot of pots. villain UTG raises to 8,000. I have 2 sexy red Aces next door to him and I raise to 19,000. Action folds round to him and he calls. Flop comes Kh 10h 2c. He checks really quickly here and and I get the feeling he has hit this flop. I bet 27k. Villain calls. Turn 8s. Super quick check from villain here. I bet again, this time 38k. Villain doesn't take too long before shipping it all-in. I am hating it at this point and I feel pretty sure that I'm beat, but in my head I'm thinking that my small-ish bet on the turn has given him room to think that I might have Queens and I will fold to a shove. My logic might be completely stupid here. I just can't bring myself to fold though and he shows K 10 off which holds. It's amazing how many times I think I'm beat in live tournaments and still pay the bet off, it's by far my biggest leak. Gotta learn to trust that read. Anyway should I have 3-bet bigger from that position preflop? Am I giving him too good a price to fold or am I just unlucky to get dogged by a dog hand?
Posted by Sky_Dan

A belated response Dan , but better late than never.
First this feeling that you were losing is aprt from normal paranoia is because you know what kind of player you are up against.

First thing is your raise pre-flop, this is about the right size normally, but there is an arguement for making it a bit bigger against such a loose player as they want to see the flop and try to take it then. Therefore you could charge them more and make getting lucky more expensive for them. True they may now fold their K-10, but that is a gain of 8,000 which you should not have had as he should not be playing that under the gun anyway, so you have gained because of their poor play and are destroying their game in the process, which may reap even more benefits later.

Ok they checked the flop (warning) these loose players like to call pre flop then take it down later, rarely do they check fold. I would expect this type of player to bet any normal made hand like say Q-10, and any draw say QJ and even sometimes complete air. They virtually always check/call a big hand on the flop if they have one, and occasionally will check raise hands like AK/KQ. The normal reasons for you to continue bet are (you should always have a reason for betting and thinking you have the best hand is not a reason) to protect against a draw (he probably hasn't got a draw). To get paid by a worse made hand and again he probably has not got one unless he was going to check raise, so there is an arguement for checking behind for pot control, and also you may induce a bluff bet on the turn from a hand that was going to check fold the flop as they had missed badly. It is close your flop bet was about right.

It is now the turn and they have called your flop bet, I am now very nervous they have not bet out on the turn, and a check raise is quite possible and we only have one pair. I would definitely check now to protect me from the check raise, control the pot size, and again to try and induce a river bluff if they were just floating.

All your plays were fine as they were, I am just saying what you can do against a specific type of player, which I admit I have inferred by your comment "that you think you are beat"