Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?

Tikay10

I was asked by a regular last night if there was any chance of Sky Poker introducing bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments. I could not really answer properly at the time, but said I'd deal with it on the Forum. It'd not be my decision, of course, but the equations are easy enough to work out.

For those of us that relish the 4 card game, be it PLO or PLO8, yes, we'd all like to see more, & perhaps bigger, MTT's here. Whether the demand exists is another matter. 

Of course, if Sky Poker are not obliged to offer a Guarantee, then it's an easy job - I'm sure bigger buy-in PLO8 or PLO MTT's could be introduced quickly & easily. I'm not so sure they'd be prepared to offer a Guarantee though. It's nothing to do with me, but if I owned Sky Poker, I'd not offer such Guarantees at the moment, as I don't think it's cost-effective. 

If anyone has any constructive views on the matter, post away.    

aussie09

i would like to copyright this idea.... "flexi-guarantee" or "value added"

with this the guarantee is changeable depending on the rumber of players entered.  add the cost of two or three seats (or another multiple) to the prize funds up to a chosen minimum number of runners at which point the added value is zero.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?:

i would like to copyright this idea.... "flexi-guarantee" or "value added" with this the guarantee is changeable depending on the rumber .....
Posted by aussie09

Call it the Ba ra ra rumba promo

HENDRIK62

I think the recent UKOPS hi lo event at £11 was a great success, I have to be honest and say I was surprised it bust the guarantee.

In the event itself saw a number of players who were new to the site that looked well versed in the format, so perhaps the guarantee brought them along in conjunction with the other UKOPS new player offers.

I also noticed many of the primarily NLHE players who perhaps play at higher stakes than usually offered in PLO8 took part

There certainly seems to be more appetite for PLO8 than PLO (but I may be a little biased ;-)).

Be interesting to hear what others say,

churchy18

couple of links here too previous threads and the suggestions that where provided then and also one bhoys started 2 @ 1/2 years ago that shows how far the numbers have come on from then do think a bigger buy in would attract some of the bigger players as ukops proved if the prize is worth playing for they will.

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3afb5801d8-17eb-4c52-9068-6fbd952c128e&plckCurrentPage=0

craigs thread 

https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum%3adf77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion%3af24cd844-bbfa-4748-b6ed-3a6f6534cfae&plckFindPostKey=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:df77f82c-151f-4bea-aae1-fb423dcae1faDiscussion:f24cd844-bbfa-4748-b6ed-3a6f6534cfaePost:e42438b8-c39d-4602-ad8e-4cc12119137c

suzy666

last thurs in month £11 PL08 T. 8pm
plenty of time for the regs to get themselves organised, most play on thurs eves.
provide 1.1/2.2 sats, 1 of each at 7-30/8-30 on thurs only. some extra sat on last thurs etc. 500GTD.

my 2 cents

FeelGroggy

I think omaha hi lo is a fairly popular game type and something like a 1k guaranteed 22 on a sunday would reach its guarantee. I would certainly play one. i think a lot of MTT players like me enjoy omaha hi lo but it simply isn't worth entering without there being a decent prizepool.

Tikay10

Keep the feedback coming guys. Interesting that most respondents agree they'd like these, but disagree on "how much?" to price them at.

I did get a snidey little note suggesting I started this thread with self-interest. Well yeah, if there was a decent prize pool in a PLO8 MTT, I might well play it, though I'm very happy to stick to DYM's, where I don't have to contend with high variance, but I was asked to address the issue by "trevil", who finished 2nd in the UKOPS PLO8 jobbie I believe, hence the thread.

Macacgirl1

£13.65 every third tuesday afternoon.

3PM start

£9.10p sats available. 2 in every 3 qualify.

Sorted.

Ice_Tiger

It is only around a year ago that the £5 buy in £100 Guarantee events were struggling to reach their guarantee. Now they seem to exceed the guarantee comfortably every time I play them.

If there were £10 buy in events with say a £150 Guarantee, I guess that it wouldn't take long for the guarantees to be beaten.

Maybe a Sunday night around 8.00 would be best but can we have decent stacks, say 5000.

imber

In Response to Re: Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?:

It is only around a year ago that the £5 buy in £100 Guarantee events were struggling to reach their guarantee. Now they seem to exceed the guarantee comfortably every time I play them. If there were £10 buy in events with say a £150 Guarantee, I guess that it wouldn't take long for the guarantees to be beaten. Maybe a Sunday night around 8.00 would be best but can we have decent stacks, say 5000.
Posted by Ice_Tiger

I agree with tiger - a bigger stack and a reasonably modest buy-in would make the 4 card heavenly game a great way to spend a sunday evening

Macacgirl1

It shouldn't be rocket science really.

Buy-in for a weekly tourny, at a minimum, should be £10, that's a minimum. It has to be big enough to attract the bigger boys from NLHE from Sky to have a go and to attract PLO8 players from other sites.

Deep stack, lovely slow structure should make it a winner.

If that doesn't work, give up on the idea.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?:

It shouldn't be rocket science really. Buy-in for a weekly tourny, at a minimum, should be £10, that's a minimum. It has to be big enough to attract the bigger boys from NLHE from Sky to have a go and to attract PLO8 players from other sites. Deep stack, lovely slow structure should make it a winner. If that doesn't work, give up on the idea.
Posted by Macacgirl1

Yeah, and no girlie players.

Phantom66

I think the Thursday MTT league works well for recreational playes who already like or want to try out PLO8 in a MTT format.

I would up the FOSP Sunday to a weekly £11 Buyin and maybe then try a £22 monthly (on super roller night) if the £11 is hitting the numbers.

Satelillites into it would be good - and possibly offer the winners reward for the thursday tourney to entries into the sunday?

Not just about the starting chips its the shallowness of the blinds and the level timings, but if it starts at 8 and finishes around midnight I would be in.

Macacgirl1

Phantom has it, I do still suspect there are some who'd play the game but the thursday night buy-ins are simply too piddly for them to bother with.

TK - that's you not eligible to play then.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?:

Phantom has it, I do still suspect there are some who'd play the game but the thursday night buy-ins are simply too piddly for them to bother with. TK - that's you not eligible to play then.
Posted by Macacgirl1

I can do piddly. 

Macacgirl1

Less of the toilet humour please, I'm too posh for that.

I meant you can't play them as you play like a big girlie blouse.

Doooobs

I am all for it, but would prefer £20+.

I don't see why it can't be tried out every night with no guarantee.  I'd play on those terms.  If it just works on a Thursday or Sunday then they will be the only ones that survive and attract guarantees.  I can't play on either of those nights, but would definitely play 3 or 4 other nights.

BigBluster

Trialling new games without a guarantee rarely works. I often think that sky has been a little ambivalent towards PLO8 and IMO this is a little short-sighted. NLHE is dying, and sometimes you've got to invest in (or take a punt on) the future.

I only play Mon-Thurs, and would love to see a £1K GTD 11BI PLO8 at a reasonable hour - between 8 and 9 pm.

StayOrGo

In Response to Re: Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?:

I am all for it, but would prefer £20+. I don't see why it can't be tried out every night with no guarantee.  I'd play on those terms.  If it just works on a Thursday or Sunday then they will be the only ones that survive and attract guarantees.  I can't play on either of those nights, but would definitely play 3 or 4 other nights.
Posted by Doooobs

Yes I too, would play Omaha Hi/Low at £22+

I think there may be a few people that would play in a £110 Omaha Hi/Low weekly game (Tues or Weds best, not weekend) as it may limit how many tables they can play.

I think having tournaments in the mid price range, whilst it would be ideal in some ways, may not get the numbers/guarantee's required initially.
 
You already have games at the low end, so perhaps a high end is the temporary answer. Something that only needs 10 runners to be considered a success.

No guarantee required initially. Even if it only gets 10 runners, I think there would be a market for this amongst the higher stakes players, and also attract more PLO8 specialists to the site. However I do recognise that this benefits only a small proportion of Sky Poker players. It is however an easier way to create a meaningful prize pool.

To incorporate all staking levels, you could even be so bold as to have a daily feeder satellites, so that the mid/low stakes players are not excluded and would also boost the prize pool. Perhaps a £4.80 daily feeder (min 3 runners + late reg, so should mostly meet 1 seat guarantee or be cancelled) to a £22 1 in 5 weekly or twice weekly satellite.

This way people who want to buy in direct can, it suits mid stakes players that may want to buy in to the £22 direct sat, and micro players can try their luck at the £4.80 feeders.

I think, getting higher stakes PLO8 going on this site would all be about momentum, so what better than a tournament that would be considered a success with just 10 runners to start that ball rolling.

What's the harm in trying it once or twice. Who'd be up for it? TK would I bet! Me too! Doooobs for sure, so we're almost a third of the way to it being a success already.

Any other takers?

Cheers,

Graham

Ice_Tiger

At the moment we know that we have around a hundred players that regularly play PLO8 at £5.50 and below each week. What we don't know is what the demand is for regular players at bigger buy ins. From what I can see, there is a drop off of about 50% between the £1.10 events and the £5.50 events so I would expect a further drop off for an £11 event.

However, the imponderable question is how many new players will be attracted at higher buy in levels? This is difficult to gauge because there are always people that say they will play that invariably don't. However, there are PLO8 players that play across multiple sites that could be attracted if there are tournaments at their level.

Why not start with an £11 tournament because we can be pretty certain that around half of the £5.50 players will step up, which will give the event a decent base line of players. I like the idea of a monthly £22 tournament. Guarantees are needed to get initiatives like these off the ground because without guarantees, they can just pass people by.

My view is that a £150 Guarantee on the £11 tournaments would be reached reasonably quickly with the right publicity and a £200 Guarantee on the £22 tournaments although these would need to be reviewed regularly so that the guarantees act as an incentive to pull players in. Maybe run a league table over the month (like the PLO8 night) where the monthly winner gets free entry to all the following month's tournaments. Nothing pulls players in like apparent added value.

Whether bigger PLO8 tournaments would take off is a trickier question because I don't know how many of the bigger stakes NLH players would play PLO8. If this is attempted then it needs to be in conjuction with a satellite programme to attract the the current pool of micro players.

Day is crucial and I did a fair bit of field testing on another site some years ago and we found that there were big differences in take up depending on the day of the week. Sundays were generally good but although the majority of players played on a Sunday, a small percentage never played on a Sunday. On weekdays, Mondays were by far the best and Wednesdays were by far the worst with Friday close behind. Tuesdays & Thursdays did reasonably well but were usually behind Mondays. Players tend to have their favoured days for playing so whatever day is chosen will suit some & not others. This was done a few years ago but I suspect that trends haven't changed that much.

Another thought would be Rebuy PLO8 events. iPoker run a £5 rebuy with an add on that usually gets about 40 runners plus 30 rebuys and 20 add ons so about a £450 prize pool. Think it is 2000 chips plus a 4000 add on. I reckon that PLO8 rebuy events would do pretty well on SKY.

Whatever is introduced, I will try to play provided it is on the days when I play. If it is Monday or Thursday, I will probably play every week. If it is Tuesday, Friday or Sunday, I will play some weeks. If it is Wednesday or Saturday then I won't play.

I think the market is there and no poker site has yet grabbed the hearts & minds of PLO8 players so there is the incentive for SKY to make itself the PLO8 site of choice by offering a good range of games across a good range of buy in levels.

suzy666

Pls do not introduce PL08 rebuy tournaments. the rebuy element in split pot games just leads to almost everyone getting to the 10-15BB level. there is no reward for winning chips early!

I agree with what icetiger says, 11/22s are the way to go. GTD will need to be bigger than 200 for a 22 though.

Ice_Tiger

In Response to Re: Bigger buy-in PLO8 Tournaments?:

Pls do not introduce PL08 rebuy tournaments. the rebuy element in split pot games just leads to almost everyone getting to the 10-15BB level. there is no reward for winning chips early! I agree with what icetiger says, 11/22s are the way to go. GTD will need to be bigger than 200 for a 22 though.
Posted by suzy666

I kind of agree with your misgivings about rebuys for PLO8 but I am surprised that SKY has not tried them because they pull in the numbers on other sites. Maybe the software doesn't allow it.

I would go with £200 GTD on the first couple of £22 events but it needs to be regularly reviewed so that it moves upwards as an incentive to pull in players. It could quite easily reach £500 GTD within a few weeks.

Macacgirl1

Bump.

Any news or plans on this?

Would it hurt to schedule a once a week £10+ no guarantee tourney? Or even try it out once?

There must be 20 or so of us who play £10 DYMs at the drop of a hat, most of us would play a £10+ tourney I'm sure, that's just for starters.

To reiterate, the Thursday tournaments are great for the community, but many of us are put off by the very small buy-ins, the lack of 'poker' to be had and the resultant £2 profit if you manage to evade the bingo brigade and reach an FT.

The site can only benefit from a bigger regular buy-in tourney.

All the above IMHO of course.

But.

I'm bang on the money.