oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.

Tikay10

All you have to do is win the UKOPS Main Event, & you'll get the bonus of a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC Seat.
 
Easy game. Ish.

MattBates

Is this added to the prize pool or taken from the prize pool?

Tikay10

Good question, Matthew.

It is added to the guarantee.

So if the comp fails to hit the guarantee, it is added to the prize pool.

If the comp makes more than £41,100, it is part of the prize pool.

Does that make sense?

In effect, the guarantee has been increased from £40,000 to £41,100.

MattBates

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

Good question, Matthew. It is added to the guarantee. So if the comp fails to hit the guarantee, it is added to the prize pool. If the comp makes more than £41,100, it is part of the prize pool. Does that make sense? In effect, the guarantee has been increased from £40,000 to £41,100.
Posted by Tikay10

So it's taken from the prize pool! Thanks for answering

unknown_username

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today. : So it's taken from the prize pool! Thanks for answering
Posted by MattBates

Should be taken from your bankroll imo

Good luck tonight.

omm

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

Good question, Matthew. It is added to the guarantee. So if the comp fails to hit the guarantee, it is added to the prize pool. If the comp makes more than £41,100, it is part of the prize pool. Does that make sense? In effect, the guarantee has been increased from £40,000 to £41,100.
Posted by Tikay10

Is this a definite Tikay? Isn't it abit late in the day to potentially be taking £1100 from the prizepool and making it a seat? Wasn't all of the other seats on offer throughout UKOPS added to the prizepool? (Big chance I'm wrong on that)

Edit: based on the guarantee being smashed obviously. 

Edit edit: and your 1st post does say a bonus.

MattBates

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today. : Is this a definite Tikay? Isn't it abit late in the day to potentially be taking £1100 from the prizepool and making it a seat? Wasn't all of the other seats on offer throughout UKOPS added to the prizepool? (Big chance I'm wrong on that) Edit: based on the guarantee being smashed obviously.  Edit edit: and your 1st post does say a bonus.
Posted by omm

No, the other seats were in fact taken from the prizepool too!

omm

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today. : No, the other seats were in fact taken from the prizepool too!
Posted by MattBates

Oh dear. 

bearlyther

First i was aware that the other seats on the previous nights wernt added value and were infact taken from the prizepool its dissapointing the way this was worded as unless you looked into the figures there was no added value and the players were mislead.  Only noticed this when i looked into the numbers.  Then to hear that £1100 will be taken from the prizepool is very dissapointing especially at a last minute announcement on the day of the tournament.

Very dissapointing overall and very poor as a last minute announcement.

percival09

this is unfair to the already paying customers for a number of reasons, most notably what if they can't make the live tournament? If they can't, then will a refund be issued? If yes, then what's the point of the offering? If no, then it seems extremely unfair since the tournament prizepool was changed on the final day. more issues too, but this should definitely be reversed 

MattBates

I have to say doing this has annoyed me, earlier in the week you made out that the seats were added to the prizepool. In effect sky are deciding what to do with the prizepool by deciding some of the prizepool goes to a main event seat. Now today you use the term bonus when in fact again you are deciding what to do with some of the prizepool. 

The worst thing is so many players wont realise what you have done as what players calculate the prizepool when bonus seats are on offer. 

Poor decsision and poor wording of the decision.

aussie09

+1

i think that this is a big mistake, if true. 

you will remember the employment laws that were introduced to stop workers being paid in vouchers that could only be spent in the factory shop.

omm

I think it's a lot easier with this sort of thing if it is all planned and known in advance if the seats are coming out of the prizepool (and not added as additional prizes at the last minute). Don't think it will stop many people playing but at least the choice is there and bigger than this is the fact that people will be aware, as it stands the majority will not realise, of course they may not care anyway! Apart from the 25k £11 tournaments I'm sure the mains have not had overlay so saying the guarantee has increased is really just a marketing trick at best and skullduggery at worse. 

Sky_SamT

Hi All,

I have taken all the comments onboard and realised this is too late in the day to make the change for an event such as the UKOPS main. Therefore the guarantee will revert back to 40k and the seat awarded as a complete bonus to the winner.

I can assure no "skullduggery" was intended here it was purely seen on my part as a bonus. I can see however from feedback here and sepereately from Tikay that this was a mistake. 

So back to 40k and good luck tonight, it promises to be a good one.

Sam

percival09

Thanks Sam, nice work. We appreciate the quick response to the issue

omm

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

Hi All, I have taken all the comments onboard and realised this is too late in the day to make the change for an event such as the UKOPS main. Therefore the guarantee will revert back to 40k and the seat awarded as a complete bonus to the winner. I can assure no "skullduggery" was intended here it was purely seen on my part as a bonus. I can see however from feedback here and sepereately from Tikay that this was a mistake.  So back to 40k and good luck tonight, it promises to be a good one. Sam
Posted by Sky_SamT

Probably shouldn't have put that as you guys seem genuinely honest, I retract the last sentence and my apologies if it caused offence. Top work for the quick response and how you have dealt with it. 

bearlyther

Thanks Sam appreciate the help in resolving this.

Sky_SamT

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today. : Probably shouldn't have put that as you guys seem genuinely honest, I retract the last sentence and my apologies if it caused offence. Top work for the quick response and how you have dealt with it. 
Posted by omm

No offence taken, this was a discussion Tikay and I had on Friday. I thought it was a fantastic idea and he wasn't so sure. Looks like he was right on this one. Happy to admit he is right occasionally. 

MattBates

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

Hi All, I have taken all the comments onboard and realised this is too late in the day to make the change for an event such as the UKOPS main. Therefore the guarantee will revert back to 40k and the seat awarded as a complete bonus to the winner. I can assure no "skullduggery" was intended here it was purely seen on my part as a bonus. I can see however from feedback here and sepereately from Tikay that this was a mistake.  So back to 40k and good luck tonight, it promises to be a good one. Sam
Posted by Sky_SamT

Good work for listening and changing it Sam. 

aussie09

well done, sam, correcting this and correcting it promptly

MilitantG

Much kudos to Sky and Tikay for sorting this out, a lot of class shown.

Nuggy962

Now we just need all the previous ones having prize pool adjusted and will be all friends again  

Good work 

ALLEYKITTY

Fairplay to sky for listening as potentially taking £1100 out the prize pool to add to first was a bad idea especailly this late in the day.

I do feel a little deceived by sky as i thought the added seats this week were added and not taken out the prize pool and i  joined one main event based on that assumtion,bit shady from sky TBH trying to dictate where some of the prize goes but at the same time making it look like a giveraway 

TeddyBloat

Do sky award themselves the rake when using the prize pool to fund seats?

So say they decide to award a seat into a £55 bounty hunter to the top ten finishers in an mtt.

This is taken out of the prize pool.

Do sky take £550 from the pool?

If so aren't they effectively forcing the player pool into paying them £50 in rake?

Tikay10

Morning chaps.

Apologies for my clumsy wording, especially as to "bonus". In my follow-up post, in reply to Batesy, I did clarify it properly.

It was a genuine misunderstanding, & something Sam & I started discussing on Friday, as I had concerns that the wording of these things needs to be just so.

Sky Poker is in it's 9th year, & I hope by now most of you will realise that whilst they make their share of mistakes, they have never been guilty of deliberate sharp practice.

Anyway, UKOPS ended on a high, it seemed to be a great evening, & I hope most of you enjoyed it - warts & all.     

Tikay10

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today. : No offence taken, this was a discussion Tikay and I had on Friday. I thought it was a fantastic idea and he wasn't so sure. Looks like he was right on this one. Happy to admit he is right occasionally. 
Posted by Sky_SamT

"occasionally"? 2nd time this century, if you don't mind.

 

Tikay10

In Response to Re: oioi, a £1,100 Sky Poker UKPC seat is on offer today.:

Do sky award themselves the rake when using the prize pool to fund seats? So say they decide to award a seat into a £55 bounty hunter to the top ten finishers in an mtt. This is taken out of the prize pool. Do sky take £550 from the pool? If so aren't they effectively forcing the player pool into paying them £50 in rake?
Posted by TeddyBloat

No idea, Teddy, but I'll ask the question.

Going forward, these things will be worded more clearly.

CxE1

Very saddened to read this post. Although Sky may not "be guilty of deliberate sharp practice", but the fact is it is sharp practice.In fact i would go so far as to say its illegal. I suspect anyone taking this up to arbritation would win the argument with relative ease.My first reaction was to keep away from this debate as it has knothing to do with me, but i realised i came 8th and won a seat the following day. I was gutted with the massive outdraw but there was some consolation in getting a little bonus for another chance the following day. This is bad on so many levels that i could write a sermon on it. I think sky should re examine this and make amends to prizes given. Although this may cost a little, in fact it would be a cheap price for all the good publicity it would create. People receiving a little money and an apology would give the brand a boost money normally cannot buy.On the other hand, Failure to resolve could lead to substantial brand damage if anyone takes this further.I'm seriously angry at the moment to contemplate this so im going to take a step back.For my part its not about the money and i would happily give permission to sky to donate to charity.

Sky_SamT

Hi All,

I wanted to give a little backgorund on this one. 

Four times in the second week of the festival we added £1,100 worth of seats onto the guarantee of the tournament. This was never marketed in any other way than added to the guarantee of the event in question. There were threads on the forum each time we did this as well as site messaging to back up what we were doing, plus a description in the tournament lobby. Had the guarantee of these tournaments not been met we would have still stood the extra £1,100 worth of seats as these were seen as an incentive to those debating whether to play this. This was also done the previous weekend with High Roller seats. 

I apologise if anybody feels like they have been mislead by this and we will look at how we handle situations such as this one going forward. This isn't something that is unique to Sky Poker you will find many tournaments/ sites that incorporate seats in a quoted guarantee but as mentioned I will look at how/ if we do this going forward.

Thanks

Sam

TeddyBloat

I can see why it's good practice for sites as you are essentially ensuring a % of the prize pool comes straight back to you as rake by forcing winners into buying a service off you. And you also increase numbers in the target events you lock players into.

Not sure if it's in the player's best interest though

omm

I personally think that this could be the start of a very worrying trend that we see at other operators and would ask that you guys consider not doing this again in the future, It seems that once businesses start doing the "added seats thing" it all of a sudden becomes the norm and it starts happening all the time i.e to get numbers in the roller up you will start doing it on every daily main event (sorry to give you ideas), this would ultimately lead to reduced cash prizes and in the long term will definitely be -EV for most people that play regularly on the site. Of course there will probably be exceptions to this and that will mainly be with the people that cannot afford to play higher buy in events however it could be argued that Sky has a great satellite system which any player has an opportunity to use to their advantage.