*** Whale ***

aussie09

here are the top 50 players in terms of being a whale. 

these are those players with a high score by taking the percentage of £50+ buy-ins and divide by the average points per game. 

this could be interpreted as being a whale.  what this means is that you should not bluff these people often as they have the lots of money and a carefree attitude.  they will, more often than not, call.


www.pokersuperhero.com/whale.html



 

TeddyBloat

In Response to *** Whale ***:

here are the top 50 players in terms of being a whale.   these are those players with a high score by taking the percentage of £50+ buy-ins and divide by the average points per game.  this could be interpreted as being a whale.  what this means is that you should not bluff these people often as they have the lots of money and a carefree attitude.  they will, more often than not, call. www.pokersuperhero.com/whale.html  
Posted by aussie09

i thought the term whale had very negative connotations in poker.

also i dont think you can make assumptions on playing style just from these stats. well, obviously you can, but i doubt they are accurate or meaningful.

aussie09

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

In Response to *** Whale *** : i thought the term whale had very negative connotations in poker. also i dont think you can make assumptions on playing style just from these stats. well, obviously you can, but i doubt they are accurate or meaningful.
Posted by TeddyBloat

you may interpret the figures the way you wish, teddy. 





 

aussie09

you should know more than most that you can, and indeed should, make assumptions about playing styles.  you know that you do already  unless, that is, you are sitting alongside your opponents.  but that is not the case.  we have to make assumptions.




 

TeddyBloat

well achieving certain points in your database either is indicative of actual playing style or it isnt

i'd argue it isnt.

but if it is then i dont see how you datamining people, calling them whales and giving out advice on how to play against them is summat that sky should tolerate.

juss sayin

TeddyBloat

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

you should know more than most that you can, and indeed should, make assumptions about playing styles.  you know that you do already  unless, that is, you are sitting alongside your opponents.  but that is not the case.  we have to make assumptions.  
Posted by aussie09

achieving lots of heads in BH could mean they are uber-agressive. or it could mean they are uber-passive and call a lot when someone moves all-in when there's a bounty on the line.

not sure how you can assume one over the other.

much less group players and offer everyone strategy advice for playing against them

ho hum.

aussie09

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

well achieving certain points in your database either is indicative of actual playing style or it isnt i'd argue it isnt. but if it is then i dont see how you datamining people, calling them whales and giving out advice on how to play against them is summat that sky should tolerate. juss sayin
Posted by TeddyBloat

paradoxically, you have written at length giving advice about HUSNGs and how you intepret others' play.  people will either take your advice or leave it. 

aussie09

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

In Response to Re: *** Whale *** : achieving lots of heads in BH could mean they are uber-agressive. or it could mean they are uber-passive and call a lot when someone moves all-in when there's a bounty on the line. not sure how you can assume one over the other. much less group players and offer everyone strategy advice for playing against them ho hum.
Posted by TeddyBloat

probability ted


incidentally, it looks like you've missed the point.  there are two elements to the Uber Aggro thread, not just one as you comment.

TeddyBloat

i've never collated what i percieve to be meaningful stats on specific players, grouped them into catagories and then published advice on how to play those specific players.

nor used perjortives to describe players.

i dont think the above is kosher, and i'm surprised sky allow such lists on their forum.

aussie09

ted, i am not going to argue with you.

if you wish to ignore the figures, fine.  if you wish to look at them fine, thousands do. 



 

TeddyBloat

i'm not looking for an argument, squire.

and my choices arent limited to merely looking at figures or ignoring them.

i can and will criticise them if i choose to do so.

you can then, of course either respond or ignore those comments.

either option is fine with me.

suzy666

aussie, in the politest way possible your totally **** out of line with your recent posts.

you cannot go around posting data on the sharpest players in bounty hunters, the most aggro players and the weakest, and then try and excuse yourself by saying its up to you how one interprets the data.

If players don't like there 'stats' being collated by scope, they can opt out. do we all now nee to send you a personal message to stop you advertising our playing characteristics?

it surprized me that no-one pulled you up on your wolf in sheeps clothing post, or the uber aggro one, which are also out of line.

please cease, I imagine sky will pull you up on this one though.

RLT16

IMO is the same as putting hands onto the poker clinic and not blanking out the names of the other players involved, it shouldn't be done, your giving out information about players that shouldn't be given out. In terms of there playing style, and this can put them at a disadvantage. 

TeddyBloat

It's much worse than posting un-edited hands.

He is data mining, applying mathematical weights to what he sees as relevant data and producing a score based on this.

Then he is grouping players together - giving some some pretty unpleasant labels such as whale or bully - and offering advice on their playing styles and how to play against them.

I mean those inferences on playing style are likely meaningless, but he believes they are accurate.

I'm kinda surprised he sees nothing  wrong with this; I'd be utterly amazed if sky see nothing wrong with it

aussie09

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

aussie, in the politest way possible your totally **** out of line with your recent posts. you cannot go around posting data on the sharpest players in bounty hunters, the most aggro players and the weakest, and then try and excuse yourself by saying its up to you how one interprets the data. If players don't like there 'stats' being collated by scope, they can opt out. do we all now nee to send you a personal message to stop you advertising our playing characteristics? it surprized me that no-one pulled you up on your wolf in sheeps clothing post, or the uber aggro one, which are also out of line. please cease, I imagine sky will pull you up on this one though.
Posted by suzy666

suzy

this data is readily available in many players' spreadsheets up and down the country.  it is down to how much one person wants to put into it.  the data is out there whether or not you choose to put the effort in yourself.  

i am no different to many players, i keep track of results and styles.  i am sure you do too.  i have been doing this for 6 years and for just over a year i have been sharing this with everyone who wants to see it.  for free too.

incidentally, i don't believe that you feature in any table.  i haven't looked for you especially.

the info I have does reveal some interesting things.  i am interested to see patterns of play. 

just so you know, i choose not to publish material that is harmful to any individual.  i choose not to reveal people's losses.  i do not use the information to berate others at the table. 

at the end of the day, some argue that you cant take any meaning from data.  some argue the opposite.  you are free to conclude whatever you like.  think it is meaningless or meaningful. 

it is not restricted to those in a closed group.  not restricted to a stable of players.  not restricted to a small group of friends.  it isn't a secret operation.  i have the data, i share it freely. 

FeelGroggy

Aussie does a good job with his site and spends a great deal of time and effort on it. This Ukops he spent the 2 week period updating results and celebrating people's success with a points leaderboard and posting consistently. I think accusing him of making lists to berate people is unfair as most the lists he make, such as the 'sky poker best player' focuses on giving credit to people doing well. Whilst he reveals the profits of successful players he does not show the losses of unsuccessful ones which I think is very decent of him. Inevitably the very nature of having statistics like 'most mtt wins' means the opposite stat 'most mtt's without  a win' is also needed. I don't see the problem with posting any of these stats as long as they aren't used to personally attack players.

splashies

I'd like to opt out from aussiescope please.

RLT16

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

Aussie does a good job with his site and spends a great deal of time and effort on it. This Ukops he spent the 2 week period updating results and celebrating people's success with a points leaderboard and posting consistently. I think accusing him of making lists to berate people is unfair as most the lists he make, such as the 'sky poker best player' focuses on giving credit to people doing well. Whilst he reveals the profits of successful players he does not show the losses of unsuccessful ones which I think is very decent of him. Inevitably the very nature of having statistics like 'most mtt wins' means the opposite stat 'most mtt's without  a win' is also needed. I don't see the problem with posting any of these stats as long as they aren't used to personally attack players.
Posted by FeelGroggy

so youd be more than happy to be featured on the uber Aggro or Bully tables, knowing that it instantly gives everyone who gives time and credit to these tables an advantage over you should they ever meet you at the table?

having a table celebrating people who win the most tournament is great and im all for it, having tables however that tells you what style of play they use to win these games is unacceptable. i assume the only reason they are even on the site still is that its sunday and the mods arent around

stuarty117

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

In Response to Re: *** Whale *** : so youd be more than happy to be featured on the uber Aggro or Bully tables, knowing that it instantly gives everyone who gives time and credit to these tables an advantage over you should they ever meet you at the table? having a table celebrating people who win the most tournament is great and im all for it, having tables however that tells you what style of play they use to win these games is unacceptable. i assume the only reason they are even on the site still is that its sunday and the mods arent around
Posted by RLT16

Gotta agree with you RLT. League tables for most profit and ukops is brilliant. 

But these other ones not so.

aussie09

everyone.  i have deleted all those tables.


 

jordz16

Personally i think most of the tables are good to see, some of them do seem a bit pointless and maybe need to be worded better but i guess Aussie is only doing this through trial and error.  i think they offer no advantage or disadvantage to anyone, within 30mins of being on a table you should be able to understand their playing style, personally i think the people who know about the tables and feature on the agro style ones would be the only ones with an advantage as they know they can change their game and get paid off a lot easier. 

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: *** Whale ***:

In Response to Re: *** Whale *** : so youd be more than happy to be featured on the uber Aggro or Bully tables, knowing that it instantly gives everyone who gives time and credit to these tables an advantage over you should they ever meet you at the table? having a table celebrating people who win the most tournament is great and im all for it, having tables however that tells you what style of play they use to win these games is unacceptable. i assume the only reason they are even on the site still is that its sunday and the mods arent around
Posted by RLT16

I don't see them as being advantageous or disadvantageous towards anyone. It quickly becomes apparent who are the 'uber aggro' players at the table anyway, regardless of lists. It's fairly easy to gage a players ability/ play style just by watching how they play and you can just check their profitability on sharkscope anyway. I don't think players would gain any more of an advantage then they already have. Some of the players on the 'bully' leaderboard for example are pro's, simply following Aussie's advice wouldn't help at all in beating them.

I agree some lists are better than others and its always better to see the positive ones but i do I think people are massively blowing out of proportion how much of an edge can be gained from them.