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DYM PLO8 hand selection
As with PLO, PLO8 hand section will be based on how good a draw you hand is and hand like 9876 are not such a good value in PLO8 due it's high card straight being split pots.
just how wide can my lo cards hand selection be?
just how wide can my lo cards hand selection be?
Comments
The commonest mistake in a large proportion of PLO8 players is a fixation with the Lo. Doing things like playing any hand at all if it contains A2.
The priority In this format should always be to win the Hi pot and not the Lo. The Hi is always there and the Lo only sometimes. Worrying too much about the Lo will get splits at best and quite possibly quartered or worse.
For this reason you should be aware of the Los available but not actively chase them solely.
You mentioned on your Diary that you had a bad time in the PLO8 DYM's last night, so I'm going to spend 10 minutes & work through a few things with you, as I watched you closely last night.
You won 1 from 6, but really, that's meaningless. 500 games at the very minimum are needed before you begin to draw conclusions,. Anyone, even the best, can lose 5 from 6. So don't fret about that.
More important is how well you played, whether you were doing the correct things.
More follows.....
Firstly, you took a nasty beat last night with Aces. Villain made a horrible play, & got lucky, nada nada.
But this is Omaha (does not matter if PLO or PLO8), & losing with aces is something you need to get used to, it will happen a LOT.
In NLH, Aces (AIPF), are something like 80% to win against ANY hand. You'll win 4 times from 5, it's printing money. If only we got Aces more often, eh?
IN PLO, not so much. Good Aces, the best Aces (Double Suited, ideally), are rarely more than 65%-35% in PLO. So you'll lose nearly 4 times in 10. A good rundown, with opposite suits, or two pairs (Q-Q-J-J, say) are all much the same, roughly 65%-35%.
In PLO8, good double suited Aces (say, A-A-2-3) will only scoop 58% of the time v a nice high only rundown with opposing suits. The same hand - A-A-2-3 Double Suited will only win the low 55% of the time, because the low does not always play.
So the first thing to get used to is that Aces are not anything like as good as they are in NLH, &, broadly speaking, you will lose 4 times in 10 with them. Over a 20 or 30 game session, your Aces are going to get beat maybe 10 times.
So that's very very important to get your head round, otherwise it's going to be Pain City all the way.
More follows.....
Next, A-2 type hands.
The post by Talon is excellent, here's what he said;
"The commonest mistake in a large proportion of PLO8 players is a fixation with the Lo. Doing things like playing any hand at all if it contains A2.
The priority In this format should always be to win the Hi pot and not the Lo. The Hi is always there and the Lo only sometimes. Worrying too much about the Lo will get splits at best and quite possibly quartered or worse.
For this reason you should be aware of the Los available but not actively chase them solely."
That is golden advice.
Now, you & I got it on last night, I raised, I don't recall the exact hand but it was BALANCED (it had High & Low options), & you then re-potted me with a decent but low only hand, something like A-3-4-6 iirc. (The actual hand does not matter).
In my opinion, this was a bad play.
Why?
Let's assume we are 4 handed, Blinds are 150-300. In truth, this is the ONLY part of a DYM which matters, so get your end game right, & you'll be fine.
If the pot is unopened, & it's you to act, potting it is fine. As you'll only get looked up, say, 25% of the time (because it's easier to raise with anything than call with a middling hand) that changes the odds completely. Instead of being, say, 50% to win, you become 80% to win. Nice.
However.....
If someone opens BEFORE you, this is a different gig altogether. Now we should bin our hand, & wait for a better spot.
First to open is a massive advantage.
As I recall, I won the hand as it came "all high". It often does.
Don't be a sheep & become wedded to the belief that A-2 is the nuts. It's not.
So, to the crux of your question.
"....just how wide can my lo cards hand selection be?...."
Well my rule is I want two things, really.
1) A Balanced hand. This means High & Low cards. Hands like 4 card combos of A-K-Q-J-2-3. Any two from the top, any two from the bottom. Balanced.
2) An ace. People seem to miss the point about an Ace in PLO8. When we play 4 card PLO8 & our hand contains an Ace, we are effectively playing with FIVE cards, as the Ace plays twice. (High & Low). I'm not the greatest, far from it, but I turn a small but steady profit, I've made (a little) money 25 of the last 27 months. And EXCEPT when the Blinds are big, & I'm desperately short, & in full shove mode, I NEVER play a hand that does not contain an Ace. (This is DYM strategy, not Cash or MTT's). Course, if it limps to me in the BB, I may turn up with anything, but I don't even make up the SB without an Ace at 10-20 in Level 1, never mind bigger levels.
Now I'm WAY too tight, I'm Sir Super Nit, & better players can play without an Ace. But if you want to make a nice, steady, nitty profit, don't go to war without an Ace in your hand.
Finally, there's a decent article on PLO8 starting hands HERE
The sidebar to that page also has some really useful PLO8 stuff.
I wish they did not refer to it as "Omaha High Low", it can be "Omaha Eight or Better" or "PLO8") but that apart, it's decent stuff.
Hope all that helps a little.
as Geldy says it depends on the players and whether you expect the flop to go multiway.
focus on good A2 and A3s hands, bad players tend to make mistakes. Ultra tight fit or fold is ok at lower stakes but this is not enough higher up.
as you move up, player tendancies become vv important. some will barrel naked low draws, you need to call to avoid being exploited, some pot RR any playable hand, some open pot and RR pot with garbage a lot (mentioning no names), some early to mid game always have it if they RR.
if someone opens, remember the gap effect, if you know they have good A2, how good is your hand?
SNGs can punish mistakes quite easily and £5 tickets will add up quickly, you could always play some low stakes cash to gain game familiarity.
i've gone through my hand history of that day and here are a few hands and my decision preflop.
Where they all correct decisions?
Hand 1 was able to get played on this occassion but if I'd been sitting outside the blinds I would have folded, is it a correct decision or can it be called?
No. 2) if teeks limps, his hand is poor, pot raise. if Scank pot RR fold. Scank prob Pot RR reactively to your presumed weakness with worse hand (maybe)
no. 3) depends on my image, how frisky whizzys feeling and engy tendencies. close. Some would blast it.
no. 4) not completing BB is a mistake even with a small stack with THIS hand.