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fold/call/raise??

the player has been caught with nothing a few times on the river already, should I make the call/reraise/ fold? I was doing ok in the tourney and to me I would say she has played it like she has the flush. but she has done this before with air

 
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
tman69 Small blind  100.00 100.00 7565.00
Big blind  200.00 300.00 15381.50
  Your hole cards
  • 6
  • 6
     
BURNShurtz Raise  600.00 900.00 21480.00
bogata50 Fold     
philrafs Fold     
tman69 Fold     
 xCall  400.00 1300.00 14981.50
Flop
   
  • Q
  • 7
  • 8
     
 Check     
BURNShurtz Bet  200.00 1500.00 21280.00
Call  200.00 1700.00 14781.50
Turn
   
  • K
     
Check     
BURNShurtz Check     
River
   
  • 8
     
Bet  1700.00 3400.00 13081.50
BURNShurtz ?

Comments

  • edited February 2016
    forget the river its a trivial fold.

    unless you have a very strong hand, do not cbet that flop v a random player who defends the BB against a 3x open. certainly dont underbet. certainly dont ever bet an underpair.

    it might be worth expanding on cbetting theory a little:

    some reasons to cbet:

    for value:


    we have a hand that is ahead of villains calling range. actually with two streets to come we want our hand to be significantly ahead of villains calling range. unlike river situations where we can value bet with 51% v villains calling range, here we would want more than that. so when we cbet for value, its with fairly thick value.


    as a bluff:

    we want villains to fold out a better hand


    for protection:

    this is a catagory of its own really. here we figure our hand has little value when called, and we dont expect to fold out better hands. what we a re trying to do is fold out villains equity share. that is the % of time he would win the pot if the hand is checked down.

    for example

    we have Q4s flop is A49.

    we arent folding out anything better: K4, 55+, 9x and Ax all call.

    we dont get called by much worse

    but hands like 6T, J7, 85 etc all have significant equity v our hand.

    when we fold them out it actually adds value to our bet and a close spot can become a value bet because of the equity we fold out.



    apply 66 to those metrics.

    + we dont have value v his calling range.

    + we dont fold out anything better

    + we dont fold out equity share [most hands that fold dont have a straight draw or flush draw, nor do they have over cards. and so they have very little equity against us]

    ----

    this board nails a defendiing range. we should never pure bluff this texture. worse we will often get x/raised on this texture.

    when we have thin vlaue getting raised is disasterous. always look out for either boards that are often check raised or players wiht that tendency and simply check back all your thin value.

    66 is uber thin. very clear check.

    betting small is even worse than betting half pot.

    + you fold out junk, and continue v a strong range down later streets.

    + you can induce raises and will struggle to defend on this board.

    + you offer incredible odds for the numerous draws, and you cant even value bet when they miss / when you hit. nor are you going to want to barrel.
  • edited February 2016
    with regard to your reads on river:

    just because she has bet river with air it doesnt mean she cant have the nuts.

    has she potted air on river before?

    has she potted it with air in a similar situation before such on 89TQK or 66J99?

    because thats not the same as half pot bluffing on 267JA.
  • edited February 2016
    oh and if you suspect that villain has air or nuts you should never be raising.

    you have a bluff catcher.

    you beat bluffs

    you lose to value.

    so why would you raise?

    glgl
  • edited February 2016
    In Response to Re: fold/call/raise??:
    forget the river its a trivial fold. unless you have a very strong hand, do not cbet that flop v a random player who defends the BB against a 3x open. certainly dont underbet. certainly dont ever bet an underpair. it might be worth expanding on cbetting theory a little: some reasons to cbet: for value: we have a hand that is ahead of villains calling range. actually with two streets to come we want our hand to be significantly ahead of villains calling range. unlike river situations where we can value bet with 51% v villains calling range, here we would want more than that. so when we cbet for value, its with fairly thick value. as a bluff: we want villains to fold out a better hand for protection: this is a catagory of its own really. here we figure our hand has little value when called, and we dont expect to fold out better hands. what we a re trying to do is fold out villains equity share. that is the % of time he would win the pot if the hand is checked down. for example we have Q4s flop is A49. we arent folding out anything better: K4, 55+, 9x and Ax all call. we dont get called by much worse but hands like 6T, J7, 85 etc all have significant equity v our hand. when we fold them out it actually adds value to our bet and a close spot can become a value bet because of the equity we fold out. apply 66 to those metrics. + we dont have value v his calling range. + we dont fold out anything better + we dont fold out equity share [most hands that fold dont have a straight draw or flush draw, nor do they have over cards. and so they have very little equity against us] ---- this board nails a defendiing range. we should never pure bluff this texture. worse we will often get x/raised on this texture. when we have thin vlaue getting raised is disasterous. always look out for either boards that are often check raised or players wiht that tendency and simply check back all your thin value. 66 is uber thin. very clear check. betting small is even worse than betting half pot. + you fold out junk, and continue v a strong range down later streets. + you can induce raises and will struggle to defend on this board. + you offer incredible odds for the numerous draws, and you cant even value bet when they miss / when you hit. nor are you going to want to barrel.
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    This post was sufficient. Excellent analysis.
    OP could have won hand but this is great analysis. If I call with a low pair and a high straight draw/flush draw develops I change tack. NEVER do a 200 c-bet into a 1700 pot. 72 v AA is similar odds. Do it or don't, just don't min bet unless strong or flop/board is open to being bluffed. 
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