Tips on Note Taking

BigRonnieC

Just thought I'd start this thread and await additions. I have taken notes again lately (was away for a while) and reassessed what notes are useful.

1) If you take a note on a player, note the bet/blinds; note the position; note the cards you see and the stack sizes. These are essential - a player who raises 74 oop in early position at low blinds is different to someone shoving 74 on button when short stacked. 

2) Keep these notes short, mention the above factors and... read the notes on people and take note of them when playing them. You made the note so read it. 

3) Don't list all hands, or a hand that aggrieved you, to add to notes - unless it is relevant to the person's style of play. IE they called a shove where you had top pair top kicker with a gut shot or lowest pair and a weak kicker but made the straight/2pair.

Any other tip would be helpful.

TeddyBloat

some tips for effecient note taking:

+ dont use perjorative labels.

a general label of style such as 'passive postflop' or 'tight oop' is fine. but using labels such as fish, moron etc isnt going to be productive. quite the opposite. it opens you up to potential tilt [how can this fish out play ME!] or complacency. remember so called 'fish' pay the bills and keep games running. pay them respect, and dont allow emotions to affect even your note-taking. if a lable doesnt help range a player, leave it out, especially if it is a derogatory label its going to make you emotional without giving any hint to a players range or your appropriate response.

+ develop a short hand.

notes should be easy to take and easy to read.

shorten: 'three bet to t120 big blind v button open and then shoved A57 with a flush draw present with stack of 30 BB'

to: '3b 3x BB v BTN, Cbt shv A57ss @ 30bb eff' .

remember when taking note of sizings the effects of different blind levels.  so the difference between someone isoing to t80 @ 10/20 v @ 20/40 is significant. either make a note of betsizing as a multiple of BB  / % of pot, or note the blind level.

eg

4x iso @ 25bb

or

t80 iso 25bb eff @ 20/40

+ the question mark trick:

you want to be confident in your notes. so use this little trick:

you make a note that villain is an aggressive check raier. however maybe he has just hit the deck hard, or has reads v the person cbetting.

make the note thus:

agg c/r strat ???

next time you are in a game with him simply delete  question marks as your read is confirmed. so you can lower your risk of regret by not making as many over adjustments

----

WHAT to take note of

things that will alter your standard actions:

you will develop standard lines / default ranges that work well against the general population of players you face. if villain does something unusual that would mean you want to play your hands / ranges differently then it is definately note worthy.

has someone flatted A7s to a minr HU @ 12bb eff? that will mean i will want to shove big Ax as he is getting that hand in v a shove.

has villain 3 barrelled complete air on a dry board? my bluff catching range is going to signifcantly widen.

any traps in villains range.

limp / raises with AA, checking nuts on river / check calling strong hands on flops. important to note these hands because as they involve strong holdings and strong holdings are hard to make it means you wont see them often enough to remember. use notes.

general tendencies.

is villain tight v 3x raises, does he cbets often, raise all buttons? these are notes on common spots. as such you will build a more accurate and reliable impression, and as such these notes are very valuable.

any unusual lines villain has seen you take.

has villain seen you over bet the nuts / bluff on the river. has he seen you limp AA @ 10bb eff? these things are good to know. dont over level yourself with these notes. just because he has seen you jam the nuts doesnt mean you can do so with air with abandon. but noting what notes he may have on you can be very useful

any strategy you have developed.

i'll often study other regs games and break their ranges down and write out some strat advice [what flops to float, what range to c/r, when to over-fold etc]. if you can develop some solid strategy v a particular villain then having it in note form at the table is going to really help you. harder to do here with no tracking software, but still worth the effort i imagine if you have volume v players or are willing to keep eg a googledoc open on the side of your tables.

weecheez1

So far other than putting a red ring round trolls I never bothered with notes but I managed to build a small bankroll and yesterday I took my first note it simply said donk bets with a good hand I want to see the same player again just to see if he plays the same way 

TeddyBloat

Its a good spot to take a note of, but you should note board texture. There will be some boards that are assyemtrically strong for the oop player and he will be correct to donk out. Think J89ss or 235 in a limped pot heads up.

However if  villain donks out KQ on K84 or K7 on A73 then he is donking the strongest hands in his range on boards where we have a much stronger range.

Worth also thinking about you adjustment to his donking range. When you get a read on one range what it means for his other ranges. With good rwads on a donk range we also have reads o his checking range

weecheez1

I think when he bet it was in case he got a check behind and lost any value this happened 3 times that was what made me take note every time it was the nuts or very strong I don't want to over complicate things so that the notes take over but if I want to improve I need to start taking notice

hhyftrftdr

In Response to C+p from another thread....:

some tips for effecient note taking: + dont use perjorative labels. a general label of style such as 'passive postflop' or 'tight oop' is fine. but using labels such as fish, moron etc isnt going to be productive. quite the opposite. it opens you up to potential tilt [how can this fish out play ME!] or complacency. remember so called 'fish' pay the bills and keep games running. pay them respect, and dont allow emotions to affect even your note-taking. if a lable doesnt help range a player, leave it out, especially if it is a derogatory label its going to make you emotional without giving any hint to a players range or your appropriate response. + develop a short hand. notes should be easy to take and easy to read. shorten: 'three bet to t120 big blind v button open and then shoved A57 with a flush draw present with stack of 30 BB' to: '3b 3x BB v BTN, Cbt shv A57ss @ 30bb eff' . remember when taking note of sizings the effects of different blind levels.  so the difference between someone isoing to t80 @ 10/20 v @ 20/40 is significant. either make a note of betsizing as a multiple of BB  / % of pot, or note the blind level. eg 4x iso @ 25bb or t80 iso 25bb eff @ 20/40 + the question mark trick: you want to be confident in your notes. so use this little trick: you make a note that villain is an aggressive check raier. however maybe he has just hit the deck hard, or has reads v the person cbetting. make the note thus: agg c/r strat ??? next time you are in a game with him simply delete  question marks as your read is confirmed. so you can lower your risk of regret by not making as many over adjustments ---- WHAT to take note of things that will alter your standard actions: you will develop standard lines / default ranges that work well against the general population of players you face. if villain does something unusual that would mean you want to play your hands / ranges differently then it is definately note worthy. has someone flatted A7s to a minr HU @ 12bb eff? that will mean i will want to shove big Ax as he is getting that hand in v a shove. has villain 3 barrelled complete air on a dry board? my bluff catching range is going to signifcantly widen. any traps in villains range. limp / raises with AA, checking nuts on river / check calling strong hands on flops. important to note these hands because as they involve strong holdings and strong holdings are hard to make it means you wont see them often enough to remember. use notes. general tendencies. is villain tight v 3x raises, does he cbets often, raise all buttons? these are notes on common spots. as such you will build a more accurate and reliable impression, and as such these notes are very valuable. any unusual lines villain has seen you take. has villain seen you over bet the nuts / bluff on the river. has he seen you limp AA @ 10bb eff? these things are good to know. dont over level yourself with these notes. just because he has seen you jam the nuts doesnt mean you can do so with air with abandon. but noting what notes he may have on you can be very useful any strategy you have developed. i'll often study other regs games and break their ranges down and write out some strat advice [what flops to float, what range to c/r, when to over-fold etc]. if you can develop some solid strategy v a particular villain then having it in note form at the table is going to really help you. harder to do here with no tracking software, but still worth the effort i imagine if you have volume v players or are willing to keep eg a googledoc open on the side of your tables.
Posted by TeddyBloat

Sigh, 99% of my notes are useless then

Tikay10

I don't doubt that Teddy has nailed it, but for me, 6 tabling a quite complex game, with the tables popping up & binging & bonging, writing extensive notes is beyond me, & for my use, un-necessary.

For most of us, especially if we multi table, we need a simpler, quicker, easy to see at a glance system.
 
My system is less detailed, but I think it works well - I just colour code every single player I play against. It only needs to be done once, so it's not time intensive. And I don't have to click avatars or read notes, I can see, just by looking at the Table, how I "rate" that player, the colour around his avatar tells me. 

Taking extensive notes after a single hand is not always representative of their play, & can so often be results orientated, too, especially if they just put a beat on us with a dubious play.
 
We ought to be able to get a general feel for a "new" player (to us) after an orbit or two. If he limps more than 50% of the time, or, even more tellingly, limp/calls, well we ought to know what we have here. 

A quick look at Sharky is helpful, too. What games do they usually play (buy-in, format), how many of them (the bigger the number, the more likely their profit/loss is a true reflection), & how much they have won or lost per game.
 
If our man has lost £4,000 over a 4,000 game sample, how much more do we need to know? If they have won £4,000 over a 4,000 game sample, ditto. And, between those two, the varying degrees. 10,000 games & a £200 or £300 profit, & this player is handy enough, neither great nor woeful.

From that, I do a  or 2 word note, & colour code the player. My system runs from purple at one extreme, to yellow at the other. Green is the sort of middle ground, & would usually be a profitable player.

Personally, more than that is going to be a waste of time, we can't be doing too much analysis on small samples of individual hands.

All imo, of course.          

TeddyBloat

I agree that detailed note taking isnt going to be an efficient use of fime if you cant reference them in game. And colour coding is very useful.

Sharkscope is an incredible tool. I always scope villains.

One useful stat to include is the average # games per day. Coupled with other indicators can reincorce your reg / rec reads.

But on a site that doesnt allow huds taking notes will be a boost to your results if you have regs or high volume recreationals in your games

fi33er

Cool topic, I have taken notes for a long time now, and i use shark scope to check out their results.

I use a simple colour scale, red is a profitable solid player, through to green which means a weak/passive losing player.

I write notes as well, normally just highlighting their characteristics that affect the way I would play them, stuff like if they have a crazy wide shove range or if they bluff bet the river etc.

I have to say though, if you use shark to gauage a players skill level you have to be cautious.  I have made a profit since september on cash tables, and recently on spin. I have lost a lot of my profit from the cash on tourneys. Hundreds of pounds infact. if I shark myself i am a losing player, but I am actually winning at cash games. there may be other players like me who aren't great at tourneys or have run bad so watch out! Sharkscope doesn't count cash games only tourneys and all in tourneys.

BigRonnieC

In Response to Re: Tips on Note Taking:

I agree that detailed note taking isnt going to be an efficient use of fime if you cant reference them in game. And colour coding is very useful. Sharkscope is an incredible tool. I always scope villains. One useful stat to include is the average # games per day. Coupled with other indicators can reincorce your reg / rec reads. But on a site that doesnt allow huds taking notes will be a boost to your results if you have regs or high volume recreationals in your games
Posted by TeddyBloat

This is what I wanted to get at... Too many notes taken (or pointless notes based on one hand) when a more effective system could be used to the same effect. I don't multi-table anymore but I know, using sharkscope and hand history, who is laggy and who is tp. 

I find some games (esp at 1am - wonder why) comes down to who is in a bad mood and how they handle it. 

Good to see how better players use notes, thanks.