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Do I take control now or wait and see his river action?

Notes on him so far is he call me when I cbet a flop and Ch/AI on a turn brick. I saw him chase a straight which would be easy to see when it hit and makes a pot donk on the river when it came.

His overall range of raising preflop is wide and could be made to fold.

When attempting to take advantage of the check should I begin my aggression on the turn or is it better to make 1 large river bet ?
DARK4NIGHT Small blind   40.00 40.00 3680.00
Joshyb94 Big blind   80.00 120.00 19480.00
  Your hole cards
  • 3
  • Q
     
x Raise   160.00 280.00 6781.24
Quietman Call   160.00 440.00 11223.76
craigcu12 Call   160.00 600.00 2885.00
away Fold        
DARK4NIGHT Fold        
Joshyb94 Call   80.00 680.00 19400.00
Flop
   
  • 2
  • 9
  • 3
     
Joshyb94 Check        
x Bet   160.00 840.00 6621.24
Quietman Fold        
craigcu12 Call   160.00 1000.00 2725.00
Joshyb94 Fold        
Turn
   
  • 7
     
x Check        
craigcu12 ?

Comments

  • edited March 2016
    Why are we playing Q3ss passively pre like this with our stack size?
  • edited March 2016
    In Response to Re: Do I take control now or wait and see his river action?:
    Why are we playing Q3ss passively pre like this with our stack size?
    Posted by MattBates
    I get a bit worried over the potential of having to going all or nothing  Raggy suited cards are likely to folld preflop leaving me up against broadway cards, Ax, middle, pocket pairs and mybe high suited connectors.

    If I make a 3bet pre I still don't see myself getting a great idea of his hand until the turn. He's already shown the signs of a person who'll delay bets with the strong hands when calling my cbet on  very wet flop and 3bet jamming a stack high than pot on a turn card which is blank to most.

  • edited March 2016
    In Response to Re: Do I take control now or wait and see his river action?:
    In Response to Re: Do I take control now or wait and see his river action? : I get a bit worried over the potential of having to going all or nothing  Raggy suited cards are likely to folld preflop leaving me up against broadway cards, Ax, middle, pocket pairs and mybe high suited connectors. If I make a 3bet pre I still don't see myself getting a great idea of his hand until the turn. He's already shown the signs of a person who'll delay bets with the strong hands when calling my cbet on  very wet flop and 3bet jamming a stack high than pot on a turn card which is blank to most.
    Posted by craigcu12
    So whats wrong with folding? I'm not a tournament player. Am I missing something?
  • edited March 2016
    Fold pre seems better than call. You dont really have any clue where you are and we arent closing the action and are creating a great squeeze spot behind us. You say he chases draws so I dont see why we want to get in marginal spots with him. Get a hand and value bet v someone like that. If we bet the turn I dont know if we are expecting a fold from what you said. 
  • edited March 2016
    As matt has said, is a fold pre nearly everytime with that stack size. Just not worth putting in 5% of our stack when we are only happy to see a QQ3 flop or AKx spade flop with chances of getting paid even smaller.

    As played, I am never betting out on that turn. If the turn brought you the flush draw it may be worth a punt, but this board is not one to play. If you bet say 45% pot and get a call or two (by sounds of notes is likely) then what will you do on river? When an over card comes? Try rep that? Hand will make no sense and probably get called by most show down value hands. Board comes another 7 or lower, you rep and lead - but the blinds can have anything at all and two pair hands well within the range.

    Playing this type of hand pre then trying to steal on a that board into that many players will be loosing play so so often. If table is loose then tighten up, pick spots to squeeze and value bet a wider range.  
  • edited March 2016
    Hi craigcu12.

    Ok, preflop is "speculative" at best. I think we really want to be folding Q3s in the cutoff with no antes and with 3 people to act behind. Our hand doesnt flop nutted very often at all, we have decent reverse implied odds. From the bb (so closing the action and getting huge direct pot odds) i think calling is fine.

    Once weve got to a flop;
    once the other guy to ur right folds, i would call (vs this sizing specifically), and some wht hope the bb folds (as he does).

    What do i make of his flop sizing;
    I feel he bets bigger than 1/5th pot with with 9X TT+ and even sets. 
    but i think ALOT of pure air (J/Q high hands) on this flop may just check/fold 4 way, so i feel his range is made up of alot of AK/AQ/AJ (maybe with BD flushdraws), then a bunch of stuff likeA A2 A3 44-88. The some very small % of the time he will have an extremely nutted hand like 22/33/99 (although we block 33 really hard).

    When checked to on the turn;
    I think this is an interesting spot and actually quite "close". For me it would depend on our opponent for various reasons, but in a vacuum, i would PROBABLY bet the turn around about 335 into the 1k pot. I think 1/3rd of the pot achieves the following things. We get value from 2x A4 A5 AJ AQ AK. We protect our hand against everything that has what id consider "random equity" (like KJ having 6 outs against us). We also protect oursleves from being bluffed (If an A rolls off and he bets and were in a rough spot). But also i think for the % of the time were beat, we are able to get to showdown really easily if we so choose. And finally you do build a pot for the times u do improve on the river.
    Also i think when we bet the turn, if were check/raised, id be quite happy to just fold.
    If he called the turn id be looking to get to showdown really, i dont see us being able to turn our hand into a bluff on many rivers.

    If u want to post the resr of the hand i can comment more
  • edited April 2016
    playing it as played I was amazed to see him call with what he did
    DARK4NIGHT Small blind   40.00 40.00 3680.00
    Joshyb94 Big blind   80.00 120.00 19480.00
      Your hole cards
    • 3
    • Q
         
    x Raise   160.00 280.00 6781.24
    Quietman Call   160.00 440.00 11223.76
    craigcu12 Call   160.00 600.00 2885.00
    RitchieAS Fold        
    DARK4NIGHT Fold        
    Joshyb94 Call   80.00 680.00 19400.00
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • 9
    • 3
         
    Joshyb94 Check        
    x Bet   160.00 840.00 6621.24
    Quietman Fold        
    craigcu12 Call   160.00 1000.00 2725.00
    Joshyb94 Fold        
    Turn
       
    • 7
         
    x Check        
    craigcu12 Check        
    River
       
    • 8
         
    x Check        
    craigcu12 Bet   750.00 1750.00 1975.00
    x Call   750.00 2500.00 5871.24
    craigcu12 Show
    • 3
    • Q
         
    x Show
    • A
    • 3
         
    x Win Pair of 3s 2500.00   8371.24
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