Improvement challenge thread.

CraigSG1

Hi,

For a while now (over a year) I have noticed that although I still manage to turn a profit I have got stagnent and to be honest at a loss sometimes to explain why I have such bad runs. Not all of it can be just a downswing and must be atributited to me. I think too many times I let either my mistakes or...and I dont want to use the word bad luck so from now on that phrase is gone so I'll say bad run outs affect my game. 

So, I have withdrawn my funds down to £100 and I am going to see what I can do with it starting at 4nl with maybe some MTTs thrown in along the way at times. My aim is to really try and improve my game and cut out a lot of leaks I know I must have. I will post hands for discussion and feel free to berate or, maybe at times, agree with me. If over a few people can point out leaks that would be great.

One thing I am going to do is try to call a lot less and utilise the raise/fold buttons on more occasions. After reading StayorGo's thread his aim to be the pre flop aggressor going into flops really is an aspect I need to adopt more of. I dont aim to be as aggressive, maybe not yet anyway, but I know I need more controlled aggression in my game. Too many times I have the mantra of 'calling to keep in the weaker range' only to lose because I either let the villian get there or the board runs out and kills my action or many other things.

I really need to improve and stop being either too passive or to much bet, bet, bet just because its automatic. I need to range people better and get into the habit instead of multitabling too many and just playing my hand.

No BR target or limit, just the goal to improve.

FeelGroggy

best of luck with this Craig. 

I really like that your goal is to improve not win x amount of money, I think aiming for improvement is a much better target and will inevitably allow you to win more money  in the long run

CraigSG1

Thanks for both comments, and your oponions will be valued. I will try to concentrate on putting up interesting hands and ones that leave me confused! I will not put up hands I just lose as often we make just as many mistakes in the ones we win!

RLT16

best of luck craig,

interesting to hear about wanting to work on being the post flop aggressor as i watched a video a while back and at the end of the video the guy basically sets you 2 challanges to see how they improve your game. 

and they were this,

1) for one session no matter the action that has occured on the table before it gets to you, you have to raise, any 2 cards you have to raise. then once you have made that raise play the hand to the best of your ability and however you like.

2) was the same as 1, but post flop

while this is obviously not going to be winning play long term, i did it anyway, and it was amazing to see the difference it made being highly aggro its improved my play massively in spots

bbMike

I would just be a bit careful that you're not playing a different type of game (oppo tendencies) at 4nl than what you might encounter at your normal stakes. GL with your personal challenge though.

craigcu12

will be a very interesting thread will follow it well myself.

I had a restart at the beginning of the year myself and have begun to question just how aggressive you can be in nl4. tables are jam packed with loose callers, getting into the flop with 4+ players and a number of deceptive. A number  of times you'll be the only one with any real aggression.

best of luck

CraigSG1

I agree I will have to change a little of my game at 4nl but this is more about learning and adjusting and the whole comfort aspectof it all. Getting some of my thinking off autopilot and back to really thinking about what I want to accomplish and the reasons behind it.

So, had my first little session this evening. It went ok, the important facts are I felt I played fine. No feelings like I wanted to chase results such as when losing a big pot (in the form of BBs) and starting to play more hands. 

I played 4 tables and will probably use this as my maximum (i may have an MTT as a fifth but that wont be often) and just concentrated on trying to make good decisions, not playing too many hands OOP and watching the hands I did play in what I was looking to do.

I made a small profit of 87p and on the whole it was a small step in the right direction. I have a few hands to discuss that invovle my dission making.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Z	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.96
B	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.46
	Your hole cards	A c Q h
CraigSG1	Raise		£0.14	£0.20	£3.79
T	Fold
Z	Fold
B	Call		£0.10	£0.30	£4.36
Flop
		Q s 7 d 10 s
B	Check
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.23	£0.53	£3.56
B	Call		£0.23	£0.76	£4.13
Turn
		2 c
B	Check
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.38	£1.14	£3.18
B	Call		£0.38	£1.52	£3.75
River
		6 s
B	Check
CraigSG1	Check
B	Show	2 d 10 d
CraigSG1	Muck	A c Q h
B	Win	Two Pairs, 10s and 2s	£1.40		£5.15

B has been calling and limping 95% hands so when he calls and I flop top pr I am certain I am ahead. Its a bit wet so I bet 3/4 pot and expect to be called by any pair and draw. Turn brings the flush and 89 gets there but I feel I still have to bet because again I feel like he will call me with a lot I beat. 6s comes on river and I wasnt sure wether to bet or check because I felt like if I bet turn then I should bet river. I decided to check but even though in this hand I am beat was I still better to bet or to have checked turn and bet river on this card? I didnt want to check turn and give him a chance to draw out on me for free.

Hand below, this is one of those frustrating occasions when you think you made a good fold but are not sure! So Z i know is aggressive and does 3 bet a lot but for the half hour or more I had been on this table they had just been passive so when they 3 bet me I have think they are stronger than usual but 1010 feels to big to fold but I not good enough to 4 bet get it in so I call. I get a great flop but still meet aggression. I decide to call and see what he does but he thinks a little then bets Turn quite big so I feel he has to have me beat so fold. 

Hand History #1045888741 (19:28 06/06/2016)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
m	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.41
F	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.56
	Your hole cards	10  10
CraigSG1	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£4.38
T	Fold
Z	Raise		£0.52	£0.78	£4.12
c	Fold
m	Fold
F	Fold
CraigSG1	Call		£0.32	£1.10	£4.06
Flop
		8  5  2
CraigSG1	Check
Z	Bet		£0.83	£1.93	£3.29
CraigSG1	Call		£0.83	£2.76	£3.23
Turn
		5
CraigSG1	Check
Z	Bet		£1.38	£4.14	£1.91
CraigSG1	Fold
Z	Muck
Z	Win		£2.55		£4.46
ZZBORT	Return		£1.38	£0.21	£5.84

IDONKCALLU

i like your bet sizing preflop craig 5 x is good on lower stakes cash then the standard 3 x   as i think when u hit a hand its always good to bet near pot bet on flop etc people call u down light  on nl4  and its really hard to bluff on 4nl so m advice is to stick with the 5 x raise when u make a hand play it aggro best of luck

DOHHHHHHH

The AQ hand looks very typical of micro stakes.

Players call too much and value bet too little. 

We exploit this by check/calling with bluff catchers less (i suspect this was your plan on he river) and betting more thinly for value (imo this should have been your plan on the river).

We also bet bigger ourselves for value, which would've been my line on the flop and especially that specific, perfect, turn. 

----

Second hand looks alright. What else can you do  

CraigSG1

Well, this is a diary of the good, the indifference and the ugly. Well, today started out just run of the mill stuff and then in the space of 10 minutes went to pot and just the sort of thing that has been happening time and again for over a year and always leaves me feeling like I should just quit. Leaves me feeling horrible.

Feel free to berate me and tell me where I am going wrong.

Hand 1; Speaks for itself

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
CraigSG1	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.36
cantley	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.60
Lam843	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£1.46
	Your hole cards	A K
Lam843	Check
Ksparkes	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£1.71
conall332	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£6.68
zord	Call		£0.04	£0.22	£4.46
CraigSG1	Raise		£0.38	£0.60	£2.98
cantley	Fold
Lam843	Fold
Ksparkes	All-in		£1.71	£2.31	£0.00
conall332	Call		£1.71	£4.02	£4.97
zord	Fold
CraigSG1	All-in		£2.98	£7.00	£0.00
conall332	Call		£1.63	£8.63	£3.34
CraigSG1	Show	A K
Ksparkes	Show	2 A
conall332	Show	4 5
Flop
		A K 4
Turn
		3
River
		2
conall332	Win	Straight to the 5	£7.98		£11.32

Hand 2; Cooler or can I get away?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
TEALC	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.20
chajo	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£0.74
	Your hole cards	10 9
CraigSG1	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£10.36
Ky11ar	Fold
archdale	Call		£0.12	£0.30	£3.65
nachochees	Fold
TEALC	Call		£0.10	£0.40	£3.10
chajo	Call		£0.08	£0.48	£0.66
Flop
		8 5 2
TEALC	Check
chajo	Check
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.24	£0.72	£10.12
archdale	Call		£0.24	£0.96	£3.41
TEALC	Fold
chajo	Fold
Turn
		K
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.56	£1.52	£9.56
archdale	Raise		£1.12	£2.64	£2.29
CraigSG1	Call		£0.56	£3.20	£9.00
River
		5
CraigSG1	Check
archdale	All-in		£2.29	£5.49	£0.00
CraigSG1	Call		£2.29	£7.78	£6.71
CraigSG1	Show	10 9
archdale	Show	A 7
archdale	Win	Flush to the Ace	£7.19		£7.19

Hand 3; Same payer as hand 2. I had seen him play any old junk and get it super light.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Bellster69	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.11
conall332	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£12.18
	Your hole cards	A K
zord	Fold
CraigSG1	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£3.79
Confused1	Fold
metz7	Fold
Bellster69	Fold
conall332	Call		£0.16	£0.42	£12.02
Flop
		A Q 7
conall332	Check
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.42	£0.84	£3.37
conall332	All-in		£12.02	£12.86	£0.00
CraigSG1	All-in		£3.37	£16.23	£0.00
conall332	Unmatched bet		£8.23	£8.00	£8.23
conall332	Show	7 Q
CraigSG1	Show	A K
Turn
		2
River
		3
conall332	Win	Two Pairs, Queens and 7s	£7.40		£15.63

Hand 4; Get this a lot, doesnt seem like a bluff and dont think I beat much that would play like this.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
riseme2802	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£6.75
Lennox2007	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.11
ProPlayer	Sit out
	Your hole cards	J J
CraigSG1	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£3.90
FRANKIE79	Fold
supakings	Fold
riseme2802	Call		£0.18	£0.44	£6.57
Lennox2007	Fold
Flop
		9 9 2
riseme2802	Check
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.33	£0.77	£3.57
riseme2802	Call		£0.33	£1.10	£6.24
Turn
		4
riseme2802	Check
CraigSG1	Bet		£0.83	£1.93	£2.74
riseme2802	Call		£0.83	£2.76	£5.41
River
		Q
riseme2802	Bet		£2.76	£5.52	£2.65
CraigSG1	Fold
riseme2802	Muck
riseme2802	Win		£2.55		£5.20
riseme2802	Return		£2.76	£0.21	£7.96

IDONKCALLU

i noticed what u are doing u have 9 10 suited so u 3 x raise when uhave a strong hand u are 5 x raising pre keep your betting patterns the same if u have 9 10 suited 5 x raise aswell dnt raise bigger pre depending on strength of the hand keep ya bet sizing the same

craigcu12

bluffs are few and far between on nl4 most days a bluff will be 1-4bb.

Aq v 102s this hand nd board is the sort of board you want to pot size bet, top pair and draws will call it anyday and middle pairs or A high aren't likely to give up that easily. you've got a little too weak on the turn  because that card is the sort of card unlikely to be in a players range, raggy top pair will be just as intent on calling top pair and draws themselves will still have intention to call. You should make a bet size 3/4pot-pot with intent to fold you need to get as much value as you can from draws and those who miss will hardly ever attempt a bluff especially when it means 3betting.

1010 It's all about how he plays AK . If he only calls then you should just fold your on hand as your not given the correct odd for a set. If he's an aggressive player with AK then you can take it to the flop with the chance of still being ahead and then it just comes down to who cbets the missed AK and who gives up.

The AKvA2v54 played fine just an unlucky beat.

109s I think you may have gone a bit too high on the turn. rather than go 1/2 pot why not go 1/3, smaller turn and river value bets will see middle pairs call down both streets but what's happened here is you've got yourself into a spot where your either way ahead or way behind, 1/2 pot bets might see weak pairs call once but they might be more likely to give up on the river than they would be if you remained lower. You might have AxsQxsJxs all ahead of you but on micro stakes any two spades is possible and some players will go in will sets and two pair so the call is the correct decision

AKvQ7 on boards like this the last thing you want to do is pot bet, even 1/2 pot bet is too high, The board itself has no draws at all just a few gutshots and whilst gutshots will make loose calls they not common as the flush draw and open ended state draw. Your aim is to get all the value you can from weaker pairs and keep in any runner runner flush draws. gutshots themselves will still be getting bad pot odds if they were to call 1/3 of pot and this will keep any 7 Q or runner runner flush draw.
All you've done here force zx and runner runner flush to fold whilst putting off Qx and gutshots. leaving you with a very short range of callers and his raising range is more likely to consist of 2 pair+ that weak ace.

FeelGroggy

In Response to Re: Improvement challenge thread.:

i noticed what u are doing u have 9 10 suited so u 3 x raise when uhave a strong hand u are 5 x raising pre keep your betting patterns the same if u have 9 10 suited 5 x raise aswell dnt raise bigger pre depending on strength of the hand keep ya bet sizing the same
Posted by IDONKCALLU

I think that this is true, but against weaker opponents we can size exploitably when we want. I don't think 4nl players are going to catch on.

I think it would be reasonable at 4nl to elect to min raise hands like 22-77, 87s type hands where most the value is in hitting our hand hard which we might not do super-often, but when we do hit blitz it postflop. Also by minraising its more likely to go multiway, so when we do hit someone will have something to pay us off.

With hands like AA KK QQ we could raise much larger preflop, as much as players are willing to call, so that they're making much more of a mistake making loose calls preflop. I'd also raise hands like AQ AK larger as we want to build a pot so when we make top pair we can get it in more easily. I think players at 4nl are fairly happy to stack off a weak pair of aces.