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Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?

dantb10dantb10
edited February 2010 in Poker Chat
Ive also posted this in the strategy section, but not alot of people hang around there.

It was a live tourny at DTD, 10,000 starting stack 30 minute clock.

Still in first level, but im down to 7,000 after a fiasco with JJ previously.

MR station limps in CO i have QQ on the button and make it 300 to go. (blinds 25/50)

All fold except mr station who has played every pot, from any position.

Flop is 10 5 2.

He checks, i want to play this strong to get max value so i pot it.

Mr station then re pops to 3k...

i tank and think he has a hand like A10, k10, Q10, J10.

I shove 4 my last 6k ish and he insta calls, and shows 10 10!!!!!

I just wanted to know what people thort of how i played the hand, was it just a cooler, or should i let go and preserve my remaining 5,000 chips as its early?

Any criticism or advice welcome.

Cheers
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Comments

  • IRISHROVERIRISHROVER
    edited February 2010
    well as you say he was a calling station,

    seems what range you put him on,

    i have done same,

    yep i think you did right !

    rover and out !

    ps. did doh go with you ?
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  • spitfire10spitfire10
    edited February 2010
    The way the villain has played previous ie playing any 2 from any position I would prob stack off so a cooler. Sets are so well hidden but this early you have got to think what would he be willing to get his whole stack in with, only hands for me would be AA, KK which are beating you at the momment although these would of been dismissed as no re raise from him pre,usually find early days in tournaments all ins are aa v kk or big pairs v sets or two pairs hard to get away from but a good fold can be a tournament winner.
    The big hands are so difficult to play at the start of an mtt as you can be called very light and the villain can hit a disguised monster.
    The last Apat event I entered I had KK first hand 25/50 blinds raised to 200 got 1 caller 22 flop was 2 7 9 I C Bet he goes all in, was so hard to lay down the kk, flop was so dry but was beaten by aa or a set I did fold and he showed the set, so early days in an mtt sometimes big pairs should be used as drawing hands as there is still plenty of play left  remember 1 pair is only 2cd on the list best hands, remember this hand next time you play live and learn from it thats how we all improve, good luck at the tables.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2010

    Just had exactly the same situation in a NL20 cash game Dan! Thought I'd have a nice steady, stress-free, relaxing game before tonight, and I'm pulling my hair out!!!! lol

    The decision in a cash game is obv very different, as u know buying back in is as simple as clicking a button.

    For me, Im always trying to final table a tourny from hand one, so with the description u gave of this guy, Im doing the same, Surviving and limping into the cash aint an option for me personally, any chance I see to get ahead early on, If I believe Im winning, Im taking it.

    I its a live tourny, with a gud structure and big PPool such as this one, maybe I'd try and preserve my tourny life. However, I'd be doing so for the wrong reasons.

    DOHH
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  • mr_mbromr_mbro
    edited February 2010
    Hi Dan,
    HOW CAN YOU BE ON TP BY PLAYING SOOOOOOOOOOO BAD LOL. Only joking m8.

    I think you know the answer here. If the guy was a rock then you can probably get away with it, but as he was a calling station you were in a bit of a cooler.
    The only question would be how he was playing, what cards he was showing. As you say I would not expect most people to play pocket 10s like him, because they ARE a hand that can get you into trouble, so a preflop raise would be my preferred play with them and only play them if the price was right, in a deepstack, but put them down if any real resistance.
    It was difficult to put him on that hand and would agree with your range for him, with the addition of 55,22, as these are pocket pairs that people do limp in with.
    At the end of the day your stack dictated your play, either push or fold and you made the right decision with your assessment of his holding, in your eyes, only 5 hands were beating you AA, KK, 1010, 55, 22.

    Dont beat yourself up to much m8, we all question our decisions when we get it wrong

    your friend 

    col
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog
    edited February 2010
    I like a fold here.



    Would he ever take the limp C/R line here with just top pair? It just looks like a set. I'd also have slow played aces screaming at me in that spot. Your describing him as a limping station so I assume he is loose passive, I think he would generally take the C/C line call here with the range you are assigning him. He is unlikely to be value raising anything here that can't beat queens. He either has 22, 55, 1010, aces or he is on some major bluff here IMO. Also taking the tournament dynamic into account I think It makes it even more of a fold, this early on its better to just fold and conserve you chips in this spot.



    Lewis
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  • BrownnDogBrownnDog
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?:
    I like a fold here. Would he ever take the limp C/R line here with just top pair? It just looks like a set. I'd also have slow played aces screaming at me in that spot. Your describing him as a limping station so I assume he is loose passive, I think he would generally take the C/C line call here with the range you are assigning him. He is unlikely to be value raising anything here that can't beat queens. He either has 22, 55, 1010, aces or he is on some major bluff here IMO. Also taking the tournament dynamic into account I think It makes it even more of a fold, this early on its better to just fold and conserve you chips in this spot. Lewis
    Posted by BrownnDog


    Or am I just a tournament nit?
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  • acebarry10acebarry10
    edited February 2010
    Hi Dan

    Well, I have never played live, so not sure I would be the right person to say this, but, you have 7K chips, you put in a 6X BB raise and Mr Station calls, which obv could be any 2, the flop is 10, 5, 2 which seems a very nice flop for QQ, you want to find out where you are and pot it, so you have 900 invested in the pot?, station raises 3K, I think for me is when the alarm bells go off, you still got around 6K left, thats 1200 BB and still your tourny life and still more than enough chips to do a lot of damage, I personaly would have said thanks, but no thanks muck :)
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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY
    edited February 2010


    Hi Dan

    Just two questions -

    1) Was your QQ suited? :) and
    2) Was the other player TK as i believe he was at DTD this week end?

    Actually, all joking apart, you know you are a dam fine player and it looks just like a cooler situation to me but like others above, I would of probably been cautious of the opponent hitting trips on that flop. Just put it down to experience!

    BTW, what was the entrance fee for this tourney? I have promised myself a trip to DTD soon but my BR is not in great shape at the mo so need to pick wisely. I have played loads of pub live poker but need to get a feel for casino live poker this year. Any advice from yourself will be most welcome,

    Cheers

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  • offshootoffshoot
    edited February 2010
    so what hands are people willing to stack off with here?
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  • ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited February 2010
    I think it's a tough spot where i would have probably done the lot, he's a station and likley to call with the sugested range. The only hand your bothered about here is a set but he is just as likley to think A 10 is good as he is with a set. I know when he flips the cards and i see 10 10 then i'm gonna slap myself for not seeing the set, another player at the table makes this move i do prob fold to it but not him.
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  • dantb10dantb10
    edited February 2010
    Acesover, u are on the exact same line of thinking as i was in this hand.
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  • namesb0ndnamesb0nd
    edited February 2010
    i play it the same,i believe you have done nothing wrong here,just got unlucky :)
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  • YIPEEYAPEEYIPEEYAPEE
    edited February 2010
    Well when you pot the flop you've backed him into a corner, so if he has flopped some speculative draw even a station can't call down, he has to jam. Same goes for all his pocket pairs, he can't call as no good cards for him on turn. Got to consider a stone cold bluff with a hand like AK, donks will do this, though possibility of the min 3bet pre so maybe it's not that. Having already dropped to 7k it's not even close for me, but QQ is also like the nuts to me, you've even got the redraw. So in answer from me I don't call, I insta call - that way everyone knows i can't fold a hand anyway :)
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  • jakallyjakally
    edited February 2010

    Pretty much player dependent Dan IMO, and given that you hadn't been at the table long enough to be certain of his range, it's pretty standard to stack off.
    The only chance you had is if he is a genuine station who has shown no aggression (say with Top Pair) previously, and then all of a sudden he is shoving as many chips into a pot as he can.

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  • dantb10dantb10
    edited February 2010
    How long did you end up lasting jackally? didnt see you again after the interviews. I bet yourz was better than mine or you will have missed the first 4 levels of the tourny! lol
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  • pryce6pryce6
    edited February 2010
    I'm folding here and probably leaving myself a bit more behind as I wouldn't play it as aggressively. It's early on like you say so I'm raising to 200 and 3/4 potting the flop.
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  • jakallyjakally
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?:
    How long did you end up lasting jackally? didnt see you again after the interviews. I bet yourz was better than mine or you will have missed the first 4 levels of the tourny! lol
    Posted by dantb10

    My interview was done in about 20 minutes - which probs makes it a lot worse than yours.

    Went out of the tourney level 5 I think.

    Had an accident QQ v AA.

    After that had about £4k left. Really annoying drunk guy raises is to about 800 EP, serial caller in the CO callls, I look down at A9o in the BB and shove, RADG snap calls with...................6d3d.................first card 6, second card 3, GG,GG.
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  • DAVEYZZDAVEYZZ
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?:
    Ive also posted this in the strategy section, but not alot of people hang around there. It was a live tourny at DTD, 10,000 starting stack 30 minute clock. Still in first level, but im down to 7,000 after a fiasco with JJ previously. MR station limps in CO i have QQ on the button and make it 300 to go. (blinds 25/50) All fold except mr station who has played every pot, from any position. Flop is 10 5 2. He checks, i want to play this strong to get max value so i pot it. Mr station then re pops to 3k... i tank and think he has a hand like A10, k10, Q10, J10. I shove 4 my last 6k ish and he insta calls, and shows 10 10!!!!! I just wanted to know what people thort of how i played the hand, was it just a cooler, or should i let go and preserve my remaining 5,000 chips as its early? Any criticism or advice welcome. Cheers
    Posted by dantb10
    err like you need my advice.....but obviously you never put him on a bigger pair or set,(which is my biggest failing) when trying to read hands...it was hardv to let go of q in that hand and i would be thinking a/10 and thinking of doubling up early...

    cheers adve
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  • TommyDTommyD
    edited February 2010
    Hey Dan

    It's a bit of a cooler but remember that he is 'Mr Calling Station' and not 'Mr maniac check raise with bottom pair.'  He's clearly got excited about this hand and as calling stations very rarely check raise with air or marginals I think you can define his range down a bit.  I would suggest the only hand you are beating here is AT, he may have hit a Station spawny two pair or, as he had, a set.  I may well have done the same as you but I think with most of the range you are happy to be against here he would have called you down through the streets.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited February 2010

    Mr Station - who was not me by the way - makes exactly the same play with A-T. Trust me, he does.

    But you don't get off THAT lightly. What was you doing in the hand with a Medium Pair that early?

    Way too loose, man, K-K minimum for me.

    Anyway, that aside, I hope you enjoyed DTD. For Live Poker, it's the nuts.
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  • dantb10dantb10
    edited February 2010
    Yup was a very good day mate! I shall be visiting the venue on a much more frequent basis from now on. (hopefully play more than 3 hands next time!)

    Heard u bubbled? sigh!

    I like the move where u were showing the top card (say a Queen) and saying 'decent pair but still didnt want the call'

    Love it! ur image is impeccable!

    Im going to guess and say u had errr... a jack or a ten with the queen? ;)
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  • cabler111cabler111
    edited February 2010
    these free game when player book this game in 1 hour before the game start I find at lease 20o/o player don't play as this free game  they should be off the table when I play they still in like top 50 how you work that one out it should be outfrom the start off the table  yes or no > 
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?:
    Yup was a very good day mate! I shall be visiting the venue on a much more frequent basis from now on. (hopefully play more than 3 hands next time!) Heard u bubbled? sigh! I like the move where u were showing the top card (say a Queen) and saying 'decent pair but still didnt want the call' Love it! ur image is impeccable! Im going to guess and say u had errr... a jack or a ten with the queen? ;)
    Posted by dantb10
    Both of them were Queens, obv.

    188 runners, 18 paid. I departed 19th.

    I'm such a nit.

    Had a great day, though, & it was good to hook up with you guys.

    The only problem is the Tourney breaks, at 20 minutes, are a tad long. Oh wait - you never survived until the break, did you?     
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  • loonytoonsloonytoons
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?:
    Ive also posted this in the strategy section, but not alot of people hang around there. It was a live tourny at DTD, 10,000 starting stack 30 minute clock. Still in first level, but im down to 7,000 after a fiasco with JJ previously. MR station limps in CO i have QQ on the button and make it 300 to go. (blinds 25/50) All fold except mr station who has played every pot, from any position. Flop is 10 5 2. He checks, i want to play this strong to get max value so i pot it. Mr station then re pops to 3k... i tank and think he has a hand like A10, k10, Q10, J10. I shove 4 my last 6k ish and he insta calls, and shows 10 10!!!!! I just wanted to know what people thort of how i played the hand, was it just a cooler, or should i let go and preserve my remaining 5,000 chips as its early? Any criticism or advice welcome. Cheers
    Posted by dantb10
    I was in the forum deepy a while back and this exact thing happened to me against Kiwini4u in the 1st hand. I had 10-10 he had QQ, he raised i called and the board came 10, and two lower cards. He put a bet in and i went the lot, the result was the same and he's a decent player, so i reckon 99/100 you gonna do your stack.
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  • dantb10dantb10
    edited February 2010
    I didnt last past the birmingham game!!

    Oh well, theres always next time!

    I will take down one at DTD this year! Thats my goal!
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  • pryce6pryce6
    edited February 2010
    In Response to sitout player:
    these free game when player book this game in 1 hour before the game start I find at lease 20o/o player don't play as this free game  they should be off the table when I play they still in like top 50 how you work that one out it should be outfrom the start off the table  yes or no /> 
    Posted by cabler111
    sorry? what!?
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited February 2010
    dan can,t give any advice,but you can give plenty.played you once in a deepstack got to the final three with yourself tikay and me,tikay says watch this for short handed play,i were chip laeder at the time and you just blew us away,i learnt alot from that one short handed game and i,ve watched how you play a few times when its short handed my games improved ten fold when i get that deep into a tourny i,d just like to say thanks for the help(although you not knowing it).just goes to show how much you can learn by just being observent..sean
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  • mabsuemabsue
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: sitout player:
    In Response to sitout player : sorry? what!?
    Posted by pryce6
    Its a rogue post look at the title above his post dont know how it wound up here lol
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  • mabsuemabsue
    edited February 2010
    Dan youre game is solid mate tbh i play sooo much tighter live than online (trying to change) but this early in a deepstack tourny  i fold everytime figuring that op has got lucky and made a set or two pair i would look and think still got loads of play left in the game its cliche i know but its not the hands you play that win you tournies its the ones you dont just my opinion mate and you have done more online than me and i have loads of respect for you,you know that good luck mate,Mark
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Any advice or criticism welcome, what do you do in this spot?:
    Dan youre game is solid mate tbh i play sooo much tighter live than online (trying to change) but this early in a deepstack tourny  i fold everytime figuring that op has got lucky and made a set or two pair i would look and think still got loads of play left in the game its cliche i know but its not the hands you play that win you tournies its the ones you dont just my opinion mate and you have done more online than me and i have loads of respect for you,you know that good luck mate,Mark
    Posted by mabsue

    Call flop get it in on turn and lose and be like oh dam. There is alot of loose dead money in these live events, sometimes they hit hands though.



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