Beware of the Dog........

Tikay10

....bloke.

Last Sunday's Summer Series Main Event, we saw what happens when a good player is playing his A game, & hitting cards.

I did a little research before this was recorded, & all 6 players were showing a healthy, double digit % profit on Sky Poker.
 
Watch & weep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipHaqGS0c08&feature=youtu.be

 

Darkangel7

I have seen it. Well played all. Wtg Chris xx

nickkay

Unbelievable fold from Kickastink, with his stack size at the time how on earth can he find a fold there? I suppose that's the difference between us recreational players and the top dogs.

devil_tear

Agreed, no idea how he makes that fold off that stack size You need to have some serious read on your opponent that hes only shoving fh's. Be good to get his thought process. Congrats on win.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........:

Unbelievable fold from Kickastink, with his stack size at the time how on earth can he find a fold there? I suppose that's the difference between us recreational players and the top dogs.
Posted by nickkay

It was quite extraordinary, was it not?

I still can't decide if it was a great fold or a terrible fold. Bear in mind just because he was right to fold on this occasion, it does not necessarily make it a good fold.
 
For those who have not seen it, "kickastink" called for a gutshot on the turn on a paired board, hit his gutterball on the river & somehow folded. Villain had the boat.
 
Not much about the hand made much sense to me, but as you say, these boys play to a different level than we do.  

rspca12

Ty tk and all i ran well and found some gd spots was a very tough ft with all profitable players. ps i don't no how he passed the straight i could not.

Darkangel7

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........:

Ty tk and all i ran well and found some gd spots was a very tough ft with all profitable players. ps i don't no how he passed the straight i could not.
Posted by rspca12

Gut feeling 

Enut

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........:

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........ : It was quite extraordinary, was it not? I still can't decide if it was a great fold or a terrible fold. Bear in mind just because he was right to fold on this occasion, it does not necessarily make it a good fold.   For those who have not seen it, "kickastink" called for a gutshot on the turn on a paired board, hit his gutterball on the river & somehow folded. Villain had the boat.   Not much about the hand made much sense to me, but as you say, these boys play to a different level than we do.  
Posted by Tikay10

Yes would love to hear the reasoning behind this as well. He did have two pair too, maybe he thought he was beating bluffs and called for showdown value assuming his opponent checks the river and he wasn't calling for the gutshot at all. Then he's happy that he hits the gutshot but when his opponent bets again on the river he concludes he is beaten by a FH.

Way beyond my level I must admit.

.............or he missclicked.

Essexphil

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........:

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........ : Yes would love to hear the reasoning behind this as well. He did have two pair too, maybe he thought he was beating bluffs and called for showdown value assuming his opponent checks the river and he wasn't calling for the gutshot at all. Then he's happy that he hits the gutshot but when his opponent bets again on the river he concludes he is beaten by a FH. Way beyond my level I must admit.
Posted by Enut

I've known Mr Stink for years-I'll ask him. My money is on he was 18-tabling and misclicked

Enut

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........:

In Response to Re: Beware of the Dog........ : I've known Mr Stink for years-I'll ask him. My money is on he was 18-tabling and misclicked
Posted by Essexphil

Yup. I've edited my post accordingly.

aussie09

yes, folding there is well within my game.  its called misclicking.

to me, it was a good fold.  it was good anything really.  but there was another factor which hasn't been mentioned that may have played a part.  the main mini jackpot.  he was final tabling both, eventually finishing 3rd and 4th for a £250 bonus.  laddering becomes important towards the £5,000 jackpot bonus.  maybe this tilted him in favour of a fold.   or a misclick.

well played whatever.



 

nickkay

See, now you've said this the fold makes more sense. I hadn't realised he's FT both, every credit to him.

Think I'd still be calling in a heart beat though, especially the way the hand was played out. Nice life though eh?

FeelGroggy

The fold by Kickastink was crazy, there's no way I could have layed it down.

He must have thought that Melt's flatting range was comprised with a lot of mid-good pocket pairs and maybe hands like JTs KQ AJ etc. As played he must have decided that the broadway portion of his range wouldn't play this way so weighting him heavily to full houses, as most pocket pairs have housed up and its harder for melt to have 88 for the chop as he's holding an 8 himself. Either that or he didn't see he had a straight  

As for him check calling for the value of his gutshot and 2 overs, I think it's more likely his plan was to check call and try and make his hand look like it has showdown value, with the plan to fold brick turns vs a bet or bluff rivers unimproved.

It was a good final table to watch, with some good players, well done Chris for shipping it!

Sky__James

I don't think Kickastink had a plan for what he'd do if he rivered his gutshot. To me it seems like he only folded because it was the final table and he was conscious of the big pay jumps. Plus the final table jackpot bonus. To fold here you'd have to put your opponent on a flopped full house i.e 55. Even the fact he had a 9 in his hand made 99 very unlikely. Sorry kickastink but I'm siding with the bad play camp on this one even though you were correct and certainly made on of the greatest folds Sky Poker has ever seen!

KickaStink

Ooooh, I like attention

Thanks for the kind words (which were very flattering) and the more cynical remarks (which amused me).

Firstly, I rather hoped it obvious I wasn't "calling for a gutshot"! That's not to say my flop play was optimal and it's certainly not 'standard'; I've discussed it with a friend who thinks my reverse-float was unnecessary and gave me a slap on the wrist for Fancy Play Syndrome.

Hats tipped to Enut and FeelGroggy who most closely encapsulated my thought process though, and have saved me some typing. It might not have been the best plan but I was being greedy and planned to collect a 'stab' from Chicknmelt before trying to nick the pot with a river lead, or catch a pair and re-evaluate were he to bet.

On the turn I'm not exactly thrilled when he fires again, but now beat bluffs, the most legitimate hands being KJcc QTcc and so on.

I feel it would be unwise to empower a reg by outlining *precisely* how I perceive his range street-by-street (!) or how I think he perceives mine. That said, I've got a fair amount of playing history with Chicknmelt (including on other poker sites) and on the river I just had a very strong read he was jamming for value, not as a bluff.

I'm not saying Chicknmelt would NEVER bluff that river, but I was only playing about three tables at the time, so was pretty zoned in, I'd been playing poker since 4:30pm on Sunday and felt my instincts were good. As Darkangel7 said "gut"... game flow... final table dynamics... call it what you like.

Actually as the river card came down, I immediately thought "I really don't want him to jam this card". He has very little 8x 6x in his range and I didn't think he would value-jam as thin as AA/KK (which he could conceivably have slowplayed preflop) when I definitely do have some trips+ in my own range. Sometimes you can sense a bluff coming before your opponent has even consciously decided to pull the trigger, but I just wasn't expecting him to fire three with air on this occasion.

You will notice I only used about 1/3 of my time on the river—I was that certain I was beaten. I didn't want to start levelling myself into a bad call; I just decided to go with my first instinct.

As for the notion I was "laddering", hehe if only you could see some of the stacks I've spewed off making over-optimistic hero calls deep in big games!!

Besides, surely the final table jackpot has the *opposite* effect of encouraging laddering? The maximum jackpot (£5k for the double-win) pays 2X the prize for a 1st+2nd, essentially making these tournaments even more top-heavy for any player in contention.

A fun hand. Thanks Phil / Darkangel7 for drawing my attention to this thread.

Tikay10

^^^^

Fascinating, & clearly a great fold. Thanks for explaining the thought process.
 
Some days I am SO glad I quit playing NLH, you boys are different gravy.

aussie09

kicka was a near miss in last night jackpot too.  pretty good, huh.