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Explaining "the button raise"

edited November 2016 in Poker Chat

We are settling into a nice rhythm with these explanations now, so I'll just throw this open to the floor. We've all heard of button-raising, but let's hear some advice on the when, why, & how much.
 
Why do we button raise?
 
How much should we raise?

Minimum stack size needed?

Does it matter how many players are already in the pot?

How do we proceed with 3 callers if we whiff the flop & they all check?
(Pot is bloated now, & we have air).
 
How often can we get away with it before we get sussed?
 

Comments

  • edited August 2016
    In Response to Explaining "the button raise":
    We are settling into a nice rhythm with these explanations now, so I'll just throw this open to the floor. We've all heard of button-raising, but let's hear some advice on the when, why, & how much.   Why do we button raise?   How much should we raise? Minimum stack size needed? Does it matter how many players are already in the pot? How do we proceed with 3 callers if we whiff the flop & they all check? (Pot is bloated now, & we have air).   How often can we get away with it before we get sussed?  
    Posted by Tikay10
    Any 2
  • edited August 2016
    I will have a shot. I am at a loose end so it will save me playing 'Jacks or Better' and reminiscing of warmer times while waiting on games to fill up. It's not quite the same here, no free drinks, Grazie points or anything, pfft...

    Why do we button raise?

    To play pots in position, to introduce the possibility to picking up uncontested chips and to inflate pots whilst we are in position.

    How much should we raise?

    I don't think there is a magic number for this. Depends on who is in the BB, stage of tourney/SNG, blind levels, stack size, whether it is cash or not etc etc. As a general rule it makes arithmetical sense to raise to slightly higher amounts out of position, as we don't want to offer as favourable an odds for our opponent to call and play post flop poker than when we are in position, such as when we have the button.

    Minimum stack size needed?

    No minimum no maximum although our stack size may change our bet sizing, for example whether we shove or standard open.

    Does it matter how many players are already in the pot?

    Yes, if we have 77 on the button for example and there are 2 limpers we may not want to miniraise as we are offering insanely good odds for the limpers to call and we have a hand that is troublesome post flop unless we spike the set etc. Even with premiums we don't want to offer implied odds that make it correct for other players to call or invite the whole table to the flop.

    Many players if raising on the BTN will have a standard amount and add an amount on top for each limper (for example 2.5x standard open and 1BB for each limper so a raise of 4.5BBs). Obviously if we are short stacked the limpers may change our action from being a standard open to a shove.

    How do we proceed with 3 callers if we whiff the flop & they all check? (Pot is bloated now, & we have air).

    Generally with extreme caution/disinterest IMO unless there are major mitigating factors such as bubble dynamics to exploit.

    How often can we get away with it before we get sussed?

    As long as the table lets us :) Although I don't really think it is a case of 'getting away with it' as such as it does make sense to be opening pots in position. We ultimately have a significant postflop advantage.

    Just my take on it. Be interesting to hear others.
  • edited August 2016
    Great answer by Marky there. Good job.

     I would say that occasionally I will limp the button if I feel that my opponent in the bb has the perfect 15to 18bb 3-bet shove stack. Clearly you need to be prepared to also limp your very strong hands or people will know that you have a hand you'll fold to a shove if they play you regularly (this is an example of balancing your range).

     On the raise size I tend to min-raise. I may vary occasionally though...If the bb has around 13 bbs then a min-raise still gives him the opportunity to 3-bet shove without a top hand and have fold equity against me. In that spot if I bet 5 bbs then he can only shove with a strong hand as he should know that I am getting great odds to call...I can actually fold here and what I have done is to have leverage over his stack...it has just cost me 5 bbs to threaten his whole stack and make him risk it all.

     If the bb has around 18bbs then I may shove myself to take away his potential move of making a light 3-bet shove.

     To me this stuff is the most interesting and fun part of the game in some ways...always exciting on day three of a live event.
  • edited August 2016
    Seen players bet 299 and things like that. Not half or quarter of pots what's the logic behind that?

    Btw thank you Tikay for these threads and those that take the time to write about it. 
  • edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: Explaining "the button raise":
    Seen players bet 299 and things like that. Not half or quarter of pots what's the logic behind that? Btw thank you Tikay for these threads and those that take the time to write about it. 
    Posted by Darkangel7

    Been watching Marky play? :-)

  • edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: Explaining "the button raise":
    In Response to Re: Explaining "the button raise" : Been watching Marky play? :-)
    Posted by VespaPX
    Seen quite a few players do it. Wondered what craic was with it.
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