Explaining....Pot Control

Tikay10

What is "pot control"?

Why do we need to do it on occasion?

How do we do it?

Preferred position, if any?

Examples of why, how & when.

Over to the experts for views, advice & comments, please.

Itsover4u

it when local gangs fight for a citys Marajuana trade to ultimately gain "pot control" ?

ned17

In Response to Re: Explaining....Pot Control:

it when local gangs fight for a citys Marajuana trade to ultimately gain "pot control" ?
Posted by Itsover4u

No, if you think it's  afecting you game then that's when you cut back on in take that's pot control, Ned off the vodka

Phantom66

Bill Werbeniuk famously needed 6 pre match pints plus a pint a frame for pot control

Darkangel7

You left yourself wide open for this one Tikay lol

Loving the tongue in cheek replies though

Itsover4u

Ok Il give a shot at a serious answer -

Poker often lies around one theory big pots big hands - poker is not that simple we need to understand our opponents range to determine weather we are controlling the size of the pot or betting for value.

Pot control does not neccesarily mean betting small but controlling the action so you are dictating the action IE -

you get raised from the cut off and you flat the button with 78s

Flop comes down 10s 6s kd

Your opponent C bets as expected

Calling in this spot is not pot control as your opponent is dictating the action by making a 3bet of around 1.2x his raise you could buy yourself a look at two further streets at no further cost as the natural inclination of the opponent will be to check back the turn 

Other methods of pot control include blocker bets (making a small raise out of position) again usually best when you have a draw and are looking to dictate the size of the pot

Pot control has benefits but always be aware of your opponents style and spots where you could be missing out on value. 

Pot control should be used and balanced as should everything we do in poker

StayOrGo

Hardly an expert on this, but I'll give it a go.

What is "pot control"?

Literally what it says. It involves checking or just calling to limit the size of the pot. We usually do this when we feel we are probably ahead but not completely sure. Or if we have a suspicion that we may be being trapped by a monstor hand. (flopped set for example, when we may have top pair)

Why do we need to do it on occasion?

Primarily to limit our losses in case we are behind, although we still feel it likely that we are ahead, so don't want to fold. It can often save your tournament life, rather than barrell away three streets with top pair, while your opponents soaks it all up (keeps calling) with a flopped set and puts you all in on the river.

How do we do it?

By checking back or just calling for one or two streets when in position, and by check/calling when out of position.

Preferred position, if any?

Certainly easier in position as the raise size (or check) is known before we act.

Examples of why, how & when.

Not the best example, but I have just played the hand on the next post.

When the 2nd queen came on the turn and it also brought with it a flush draw, both my opponent and I checked our Ax hands down for pot control. As it was we split the pot. Hope this helps

Side note: Sometimes when it's gone check/check on the turn, it is difficult to know whether to go for thin value on the river or maintain pot control mode. In the example hand below if I had AK, after pot controling the turn, I'd go for thin value on the river as it is likely that Ax hands that I beat, would call. Although if my opponent was a very cagy (often trapping) type player then I may just check/call AK.

StayOrGo

Hand History #1066985854 (19:38 10/08/2016)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
StayOrGo	Small blind		10.00	10.00	2685.00
1Winslow	Big blind		20.00	30.00	3030.00
	Your hole cards	Ad 8h
rich-a-64	Fold
TIMBER	Fold
Ubbi4820	Fold
spik1966	Fold
StayOrGo	Raise		50.00	80.00	2635.00
1Winslow	Call		40.00	120.00	2990.00
Flop
		Jh Ah Qs
StayOrGo	Bet		90.00	210.00	2545.00
1Winslow	Call		90.00	300.00	2900.00
Turn
		Qh
StayOrGo	Check
1Winslow	Check
River
		7c
StayOrGo	Check
1Winslow	Check
StayOrGo	Show	Ad 8h
1Winslow	Show	3s As
StayOrGo	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and Queens	150.00		2695.00
1Winslow	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and Queens	150.00		3050.0

StayOrGo

Here's one I played badly, was defo a fold on the river, but I could have just checked back the turn for pot control. Had I just checked the turn, the river bet would have been much smaller too. Although the flush was very likely here, so the river should have been a fold either way. Anyhow, I lost more chips than I needed to here, by not controlling the pot well enough on the turn. Although in the back of my mind, I didn't want to give him a free card if he had just one diamond.

Hand History #1067028401 (20:54 10/08/2016)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
rabbit11	Small blind		30.00	30.00	13476.25
StayOrGo	Big blind		60.00	90.00	8498.75
	Your hole cards	As Ac
Jboss	Fold
DEKKER5207	Fold
dabobs18	Fold
massie04	Fold
rabbit11	Call		30.00	120.00	13446.25
StayOrGo	Raise		120.00	240.00	8378.75
rabbit11	Call		120.00	360.00	13326.25
Flop
		Kd 3d 2d
rabbit11	Check
StayOrGo	Bet		180.00	540.00	8198.75
rabbit11	Call		180.00	720.00	13146.25
Turn
		5h
rabbit11	Check
StayOrGo	Bet		360.00	1080.00	7838.75
rabbit11	Raise		720.00	1800.00	12426.25
StayOrGo	Call		360.00	2160.00	7478.75
River
		3s
rabbit11	Bet		1620.00	3780.00	10806.25
StayOrGo	Call		1620.00	5400.00	5858.75
rabbit11	Show	9d Ad
StayOrGo	Muck	As Ac
rabbit11	Win	Flush to the Ace	5400.00		16206.25

StayOrGo

Some other example spots where you may pot control.

You may decide to check/call 3 streets with AK on a A99 board, just incase he has a nine.

You may check call two or three streets with 2nd pair against an aggressive opponent.

You may check call a set on the river, if a draw hits.

Sometimes if a draw misses, and you have a top pair/2nd pair type hand, it's advantageous to be out of position, as often your opponent will try a last ditch bluff when you check to him. So checking the river here controls the pot if beat and is also a potential bluff inducer.

Hope these help.

G

StayOrGo

One other thought.

Pot control only really comes into play when you are fairly deep. (Unless it's just pot controlling the river)

It may well result in you only losing a third of your stack instead of all of it. So it's quite important.

As mentioned earlier, there is also an ancillary benefit that it may invoke a bluff (when OOP) from your opponent.

It's OK winning big pots, but most top players after winning a big tournament, will reflect upon a hand where they did well not to go broke due to effective pot control, that was pivotal in them winning the tournament.

Right that's enough from me. hope it's of use.

TeddyBloat

Pot control is one of those terms that encompasses many concepts.

People will often cite pot control when checking back flop but there are more subtle reasons.

 for example:

Thin value doesn't like to be raised

 - on boards that are check raised or against aggressive villains you may want to strongly consider checking thin value. This has the side effect of polarising your range.

We want to limit the number of bets that go into the pot.

- we will often have hands that only want to get 1-2 bets in by the river.  choosing where to place your bets and checks is a good way of managing this

Some hands play much better against a check range than v a check / call range

- weak top pairs on wet boards for example. We will often want to check back in these siituatioms as when we do we get to play against villains entire check range - this will include all their check/fold hands, bottom pair etc. When we bet if we see a turn it will be facing only his check call (or check raise) range, and often we will prefer to play against the wider range. We still get to call probes, value bet when checked to and get to  assess how the wetness of the board has altered our relative hand strength - and we do so against an overall less connected, weaker and less cupped range.

overall range construction.

- given we will rarely want to bet a board 100% of the time we may want to choose to check back some hands that can still showdown the best hand. The idea is that in position we can bet our total air but we still will be over bluffing if we bet all of our hands that have little equity when called. We may therefore want to pick K high A high / bottom pair hands to check that are still ahead of villains checking range and can still win at showdown. We are controlling the pot but our main consideration is placing hands in parts of our range where they perform best.