Could I have played this differently?

Seagull158

How can he raise it up with QJ after 2 raises? Did he have the odds?

Hand History #232368218 (21:56 10/02/2010)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Seagull158	Small blind		30.00	30.00	4330.00
The Bad	Big blind		60.00	90.00	4730.00
	Your hole cards	K K
The Ugly	Call		60.00	150.00	6425.00
GCSE12	Fold
KYLECARDS	Fold
Seagull158	Raise		120.00	270.00	4210.00
The Bad	Raise		270.00	540.00	4460.00
The Ugly	Call		270.00	810.00	6155.00
Seagull158	Call		180.00	990.00	4030.00
Flop
		2 J 6
Seagull158	Bet		900.00	1890.00	3130.00
The Bad	Raise		2295.00	4185.00	2165.00
The Ugly	Raise		3690.00	7875.00	2465.00
Seagull158	All-in		3130.00	11005.00	0.00
The Bad	All-in		2165.00	13170.00	0.00
The Ugly	Raise		2165.00	15335.00	300.00
The Ugly	Unmatched bet		1395.00	13940.00	1695.00
Seagull158	Show	K K
The Bad	Show	J A
The Ugly	Show	J Q
Turn
		3
River
		10
The Ugly	Win	Flush to the Queen	13940.00		15635.00

BlackFish3

Post flop is fine but preflop is a bit mangled by you... you min raise a limper (bump it up to something like 240 not 120... general rule of thumb, 3BB raise + 1 for every limper), then you get reraised and call knowing you are in a 3 way pot... ideally with a big pocket pair you want to be just heads up, it should also be noted that when people are showing strength like this with the rereraise then you can get a lot more out of them preflop with raising back, i would of made it 1000 at this point... that stops rag aces etc outdrawing you or suited cons hitting big flops etc... so it was your preflop play that mangled the hand for you, post flop you got outdrawn but you were dodging any club, any jack and any queen giving you 8 clubs, 1 jack and 3 queens to avoid. 43 cards left in the pack... and you are avoiding 12, so ignoring redraws you were going to win the hand just over 50% of the time.

offshoot

^^what blackfish said. You dont want to be playing a 3way pot. re-raise to either take the pot or get HU vs a weaker hand.

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Could I have played this differently?:

Post flop is fine but preflop is a bit mangled by you... you min raise a limper (bump it up to something like 240 not 120... general rule of thumb, 3BB raise + 1 for every limper), then you get reraised and call knowing you are in a 3 way pot... ideally with a big pocket pair you want to be just heads up, it should also be noted that when people are showing strength like this with the rereraise then you can get a lot more out of them preflop with raising back, i would of made it 1000 at this point... that stops rag aces etc outdrawing you or suited cons hitting big flops etc... so it was your preflop play that mangled the hand for you, post flop you got outdrawn but you were dodging any club, any jack and any queen giving you 8 clubs, 1 jack and 3 queens to avoid. 43 cards left in the pack... and you are avoiding 12, so ignoring redraws you were going to win the hand just over 50% of the time.
Posted by BlackFish3

All good points, thanks. My min raise PF was deliberate because, up to that point, everyone was folding to just about any raise and I hoped to get one or 2 callers and then blow them away on the flop. Maybe slightly greedy but I wanted more chips than just the blinds. I didnt expect to get reraised and, yes, I could/should have reraised at that point and got rid of one or both of them. I think that call was the real mistake as the min raise sort of did what I wanted, getting more chips in the pot.

Tikay10

Seagull,

I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle.

"How can he do this?" "how can he call?" "what was he thinking?" is a theme repeated by many. It's irrelevant!

Peeps do the strangest things, & we have to factor that into our game, & our results.

If he misses his flush, you'd be thrilled about his play then......

We can't have our cake & eat it. We win this coup most times, often due to bad play by villain. If his cards were face up before the money went in, you'd say "yes please!" 

Good luck man.

yb

The guy with QJ had top pair + flush draw. His play post flop is fine as he knows he has up to 15 outs (and almost certainly 9 at least). He played the hand a lot better than you did imo.

Dudeskin8

Don't minraise from small blind.

pryce6

I'm just gutted that 'The Good' wasn't sitting at this table...

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Could I have played this differently?:

I'm just gutted that 'The Good' wasn't sitting at this table...
Posted by pryce6

Ha. You got that then. Seagull is my pseudonym!

Seagull158

In Response to Re: Could I have played this differently?:

Seagull, I think you are approaching this from the wrong angle. "How can he do this?" "how can he call?" "what was he thinking?" is a theme repeated by many. It's irrelevant! Peeps do the strangest things, & we have to factor that into our game, & our results. If he misses his flush, you'd be thrilled about his play then...... We can't have our cake & eat it. We win this coup most times, often due to bad play by villain. If his cards were face up before the money went in, you'd say "yes please!"  Good luck man.
Posted by Tikay10

I get your point. I phrased it badly. I meant why did he raise it up and was he getting the odds to do so?
I wasnt whining. Honest. I realise that my min raise and then flat call gave him encouragement. I wasnt unhappy when I saw the cards.