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Live Tournament Unfair Play/Gamesmanship- Costing Me My Tournament and Money
I was recently playing in a live poker tournament at my local casino that i do nearly every Thursday night. i was involved in a hand with 3 players. After my raise with my pocket AA the next player raised all in with his hand. Myself and the other player called his re-raise as we were both more than covering his chips. we continued our play until the river and the pot had amassed to a huge amount. It was a tournament winning pot in my opinion 40,000+ pot. The river card came on myself and the other player were betting on our own side pot but before the other player was first to act the player who was all in and not involved in the pot stood up and said "well we all know he's got the aces" referring to my hand which is what i had. and the player first to bet raised me all in upon hearing the other player, i called. The other player made a king high straight on the river but i wasn't to know this at the time. The board was something like 10 J 9 J K.
I lost all my chips, i feel as a result of the other players comments who was not involved in the side pot. Giving the other player information. I spent £30 on entering the tournament and felt that the players comments were unfair.
Are there any rules on this, where-by in the situation i could appeal to the tournament officials and get my chips back and the other player betting on my pot gets his back and as we both had hands beating his, we would split the side pot of the other players all in.
Or was i just unlucky to be subject to unfair gamesmanship and poor etiquette? At the time i was too gutted to say anything as i was sure i was ahead and the player just managed to make a gutshot wheel draw on the river. Was such a horrible beat. I would have been chip leader by a long way and the guy who took my chips went on to win the tournament with only 3 tables left.
I hope i have explained the situation to an understandable level and i know its quite a technical question to ask, but can anyone help me with an answer for future situations i may be in.
I lost all my chips, i feel as a result of the other players comments who was not involved in the side pot. Giving the other player information. I spent £30 on entering the tournament and felt that the players comments were unfair.
Are there any rules on this, where-by in the situation i could appeal to the tournament officials and get my chips back and the other player betting on my pot gets his back and as we both had hands beating his, we would split the side pot of the other players all in.
Or was i just unlucky to be subject to unfair gamesmanship and poor etiquette? At the time i was too gutted to say anything as i was sure i was ahead and the player just managed to make a gutshot wheel draw on the river. Was such a horrible beat. I would have been chip leader by a long way and the guy who took my chips went on to win the tournament with only 3 tables left.
I hope i have explained the situation to an understandable level and i know its quite a technical question to ask, but can anyone help me with an answer for future situations i may be in.
Comments
The answer to the part I have enboldened is, I'm afraid, a categorical "no". Never, never ever ever, can this or will this happen.
Any dispute as to a hand must be raised, & concluded, BEFORE the next hand commences.
And I'm afraid there was no case to answer. It was a tad unfortunate, but that's Live Poker for you. It does not happen Online.
It's this, really, though more "poor etiquette" than gamesmanship, as the Shortie had nothing to gain. It was a dumb thing for him to say, at the wrong time, but many poker players are very self-centred, & don't think these things through.
In any event, I'm not sure how his comments altered anything. Mr King High Straight man is not likely to take any note of what Mr Shortie said anyway.
Also, I don't know how the betting went - did you Raise all-in or Call all-in, but any strong betting on that super scary Board & my Aces are in the muck as quick as a quick thing.
By the bye, you said he was on a "gutshot wheel draw", a "wheel" is A-2-3-4-5, whereas A-K-Q-J-10 is called "Broadway".
In poker, it's best to forget what went wrong yesterday, or it becomes a big chip on your shoulder, & the enjoyment factor is diluted.
Unlucky, & I hope you scoop a nice Cash soon.
Thanks For the Response. In retrospect i played the hand very poorly. I think the excitement of getting some serious action on my pocket aces got me excited. I checked when i should have bet and should have gone all in maybe pre flop or after the flop cards or maybe even the turn.
In my defence the all in call in pre flop might have resulted in getting a smaller pot. Although i would have eaten into the big stack by about a 1/4 of his stack, But after committing his stack there are no guarantees he would have given up the pot with 10.000 of his chips committed, even if he had q-10.
The flop was something along the lines of 10-9-J. All in from me after his large 10,000 chip commitment with this board might not have seen him fold. He had me covered and to call would have left him with only 10,000 of his around 40,000 start of hand stack. With middle pair and the possible straight draw he might have stuck around.
If i remember right i think i bet out 5,000 to which he called. Board was now something like 10-9-J-J. So possible scare cards for me and him. I, for some reason made the biggest mistake of the hand and checked the turn. I was scared he had jacks as this was a conceivable hand pre flop. He checks.
The river card is the K. I thought i was in the clear. This is when the idiot piped up with "well we all know he has the aces" The big stack puts me all in. i call. he takes the 50,000ish sized pot. And went on to win.
I think i learned a lot from this hand. Its just a pity i got knocked out the tournament and was playing so well up until that point. My one major mistake of the night cost me my tournament. It was only my second live tournament. I can honestly say in some times i will most certainly win the tournament. I just need some time and some better luck in these situations.
A lot of people trash talk and try to second guess cards, like tikay said it was poor etiquette but the other player I'm sure had already made his mind up without hearing what the other person said.