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Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo

edited February 2017 in Poker Chat
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45/software/sky-poker-hud-database-management-tool-1636984/?highlight=

I would be very interested in Sky's response to this. The thing I like most about Sky is it's position on tracking software but if someone has found a workaround and is making it possible for players to have live tracking of hand histories, it raises a significant question about just how level of a playing field those of us that play by the rules are competing on.

Comments

  • edited November 2016
    In Response to Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo:
    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45/software/sky-poker-hud-database-management-tool-1636984/?highlight= I would be very interested in Sky's response to this. The thing I like most about Sky is it's position on tracking software but if someone has found a workaround and is making it possible for players to have live tracking of hand histories, it raises a significant question about just how level of a playing field those of us that play by the rules are competing on.
    Posted by The--Don
    Thank you for raising this to our attention. Rest assured Sky Poker do everything within its power to create a level playing field for all. We will be working with Tech and Legal teams to investigate this.
  • edited November 2016
    My pleasure.

    I suspect that you might be fighting a losing battle though and if that is the case, having rules that are impossible to police just places those of us that play by the rules at a distinct disadvantage to those that are willing to flirt with the danger of getting caught.

    I understand that Sky can't say too much about how it detects any banned softwares being used but at the same time, kicking it into the long grass after shooting out a few platitudes won't wash here. If this is a real thing, you can guarantee some players will be using it and it is important that Sky offers plenty of reassurance that it is on top of the situation.
  • edited November 2016
    Do people think software may bring about the death of online poker? I get people using huds too multi table. Personally I don't like the idea of playing against people using huds though. I think it should be one person's brain against another's. On other poker sites there is also software and bots people use to influence their decisions. Such things imo are completely unfair and certainly put people off playing poker. Suspect it'll be a game of cat and mouse but will put off many from playing online. Perhaps it will see live poker have a boom?
  • edited November 2016
    That's why I love playing on Sky because the regs look out for suspicious activity and report it. Not a clue about HUD's or how would use them. No point in telling me because I don't want to know. If it gives a player an advantage over another player then I really think it's unfair. Well done for bringing it to the attention of Sky The_Don
  • edited November 2016
    I can understand why this would concern players, level playing field and all that.
    Thankfully it doesn't affect me, sometimes I play right handed, other days left handed, as I write right handed my play is completely different when I play left handed..#beatthecheat.
  • edited November 2016
    Sky should consider generating random text before you poker id when you log in to tables.

    Say h4fc_gerardirl, then next table im df55_gerardirl

    That is one way of avoding tracking (i think)


    Ger
  • edited November 2016
    Well spotted The Don. 

    I think its a probably easy for sky to S***w up tracking any tracking software.

    In a couple of days , there will be a software update , and its  gg tracking software.




    EDIT SCRE_W is banned
  • edited November 2016
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo:
    Well spotted The Don.  I think its a probably easy for sky to S***w up tracking any tracking software. In a couple of days , there will be a software update , and its  gg tracking software. EDIT SCRE_W is banned
    Posted by mumsie
    Yeah and then the creator's will update their software and it's up and running again. 

    HUDs in one form or another have been running on this site (albeit for a tiny % of players) afaik pretty much since I started playing here, at least for the last 5+ years. Sky will make updates to stop them working and the computer experts will update their software to make it work again.
  • edited November 2016
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo:
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo : Yeah and then the creator's will update their software and it's up and running again.  HUDs in one form or another have been running on this site (albeit for a tiny % of players) afaik pretty much since I started playing here, at least for the last 5+ years. Sky will make updates to stop them working and the computer experts will update their software to make it work again.
    Posted by Lambert180

    I agree completely with this, which is why as well as constantly making life difficult for software developers, I would like to see Sky catching and punishing offenders.

    I would be amazed if many of the regulars I play at the £20nl+ tables aren't using this, or other software. If a couple of these guys were caught and had their rolls confiscated, it would go a long way to dissuading others from using the software,

    There is definitely a big elephant in the room regarding this issue on Sky.

  • edited November 2016
    I thought that in poker you are supposed to mix things up,try some different strategies, which should cancel out any advantage some may get from their huds, bots etc. I would have thought a multi-tabler would be more vulnerable than a single table player, as they've less time.
    I bet I'm wrong though.
  • edited November 2016
    I posted on this earlier in the month.

    Detection is the only way of preventing this type of thing.

    There will be private software doing this job already in the player pool. You can hire programmers on sites like people per hour relatively cheaply - Asian programmers and people looking to build a portfolio are very capable and affordable. I've had some nifty custom poker software made for me this way.

    Can sky detect processes running on a comp playing through the browser? Maybe, maybe not.

    For most people it won't affect their playing experience. HUDs don't tell you how to play -  I speak to a seller of a very complex commercial HUD and he believes that the majority of his customers are losing players  - akin to recreational golfers who like to have the best club's.

    People arent losing to winning players because of huds, it's the hours of off table study and that gives the edge. Don't worry about 0.5% of peeps having a run running. Often it won't be running smoothly, often people won't know how to interpret the stats generated and won't put in the off table hours to make meaningful adjustments. Most of the time in formats like mtts huds aren't even all that useful due to low sample sizes.

    HUDs and bots aren't close to being the same thing btw.
  • edited November 2016
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo:
    I posted on this earlier in the month. Detection is the only way of preventing this type of thing. There will be private software doing this job already in the player pool. You can hire programmers on sites like people per hour relatively cheaply - Asian programmers and people looking to build a portfolio are very capable and affordable. I've had some nifty custom poker software made for me this way. Can sky detect processes running on a comp playing through the browser? Maybe, maybe not. For most people it won't affect their playing experience. HUDs don't tell you how to play -  I speak to a seller of a very complex commercial HUD and he believes that the majority of his customers are losing players  - akin to recreational golfers who like to have the best club's. People arent losing to winning players because of huds, it's the hours of off table study and that gives the edge. Don't worry about 0.5% of peeps having a run running. Often it won't be running smoothly, often people won't know how to interpret the stats generated and won't put in the off table hours to make meaningful adjustments. Most of the time in formats like mtts huds aren't even all that useful due to low sample sizes. HUDs and bots aren't close to being the same thing btw.
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    Big Brother's watching you !
  • edited November 2016
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo:
    I posted on this earlier in the month. Detection is the only way of preventing this type of thing. There will be private software doing this job already in the player pool. You can hire programmers on sites like people per hour relatively cheaply - Asian programmers and people looking to build a portfolio are very capable and affordable. I've had some nifty custom poker software made for me this way. Can sky detect processes running on a comp playing through the browser? Maybe, maybe not. For most people it won't affect their playing experience. HUDs don't tell you how to play -  I speak to a seller of a very complex commercial HUD and he believes that the majority of his customers are losing players  - akin to recreational golfers who like to have the best club's. People arent losing to winning players because of huds, it's the hours of off table study and that gives the edge. Don't worry about 0.5% of peeps having a run running. Often it won't be running smoothly, often people won't know how to interpret the stats generated and won't put in the off table hours to make meaningful adjustments. Most of the time in formats like mtts huds aren't even all that useful due to low sample sizes. HUDs and bots aren't close to being the same thing btw.
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    Yup. 
  • edited November 2016
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo:
    In Response to Re: Worrying Thread on Twoplustwo : Yeah and then the creator's will update their software and it's up and running again.  HUDs in one form or another have been running on this site (albeit for a tiny % of players) afaik pretty much since I started playing here, at least for the last 5+ years. Sky will make updates to stop them working and the computer experts will update their software to make it work again.
    Posted by Lambert180
    Care to elaborate on how you know this?
  • edited November 2016
    What's much more worrying is the amount of misinformation that's spread regarding HUDs. It's still brain vs brain. By itself it's unlikely to turn a losing player into a winning player; similarly, it's likely a winning player would still be a winning player without one. Any advantage would remain minimal unless the user puts in a lot of off the table work* and, in fact, it can actually hinder the user's performance. 

    To elaborate, what I mean by this isn't merely browsing through hands and obsverving certain stats (oooOOoo 14% CBET), and then being able to miraculously jump to sound conclusions on the optimal strategic counter to an opponent's play. Not at all - a player would have to have prior detailed theoretical knowledge of the game of poker before being capable of making profitable (let alone optimal) adjustments to most strategies, otherwise, adjustments could easily be poor & unprofitable. There's no magic switch. 
  • edited November 2016
    100%. Most people would be better off if they had never used a HUD - they place too much weight on stats with low samples, make poor adjustments, and so are distracted from the action for no gain.

    The hud is also only a small part of a program like HEM. Having a database is incredibly useful when combined with efficient methodological study.

    It's still fun without that ability to study - hence most people enjoy the generated stats on how they play and cool graphs without ever gaining edge from them.

    Again I would wager the majority of people using tracking software across sites are losing players who simply enjoy using the software.

    On sky hud users are likely to be winning players due to the effort needed to get one running here  - but it's other regs that are likely the ones being exploited most.

    Some formats benefit more from hud use than others also.

    Having a winning player on your table is going to hurt your results, but huds do not make people winning players. They are like expensive golf clubs  - most will still shank their drives like always. But those that pay for coaching and work on their swing will see some marginal gains from the boss clubs.

    Where competition is tough those marginal gains will pay off. For most though expensive clubs are just a cool toy to have

    Same for huds.
  • edited November 2016
    the guy on 2+2 is asking people to PM him it doesn,t take a genius to get the info ..but he knows now
  • edited November 2016
    Guess sky will be sending him a PM to get the program to then work out how to stop it. Like lambert said, its like hackers in online games, theyll always find a way around things
  • edited February 2017
    Hasnt Holdem Indicator offered Sky Poker support including use of their HUD for years?
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