You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
Keeping On Grinding
So this post is just intended as a heart to heart warmer for all those players out there like me struggling to make anything (or indeed just not to lose a lot) playing online Poker.
I've been playing hold em for 3 years on and off now. To begin with it was just little friendly home games with friends for a quid here a quid there, then it progressed to online and now I play pretty much everyday here at Sky - DYMs, Cash, Free-rolls.
I'll be honest. It's proving to be hard. I hoped to make my living off online Poker and now I'm thinking about relegating it to just a side hobby and going back to regular work. I knew it would be tough, under no illusions, but I'm just not sure it is profitable for me.
Having said that, this post is not about defeat and loss, it is about continuing on and fighting to overcome the odds of actually pulling it off. I just wanted to say if you too are struggling like I am to make anything and are thinking about giving it up - then just remember you are not alone. Also remember this....
Everything takes time to learn and to get better at. I'm not giving up and hopefully so too will those of you whom are not in serious debt (I'm being serious because that is a situation that cannot be ignored).
I've been playing hold em for 3 years on and off now. To begin with it was just little friendly home games with friends for a quid here a quid there, then it progressed to online and now I play pretty much everyday here at Sky - DYMs, Cash, Free-rolls.
I'll be honest. It's proving to be hard. I hoped to make my living off online Poker and now I'm thinking about relegating it to just a side hobby and going back to regular work. I knew it would be tough, under no illusions, but I'm just not sure it is profitable for me.
Having said that, this post is not about defeat and loss, it is about continuing on and fighting to overcome the odds of actually pulling it off. I just wanted to say if you too are struggling like I am to make anything and are thinking about giving it up - then just remember you are not alone. Also remember this....
Everything takes time to learn and to get better at. I'm not giving up and hopefully so too will those of you whom are not in serious debt (I'm being serious because that is a situation that cannot be ignored).
Comments
I mean there are many people doing it, so we at least know it is possible! Also what is the down side? Play a game you enjoy more often and not have to go to work, it is a no brainer surely?
Well if I had (i) been offered robust advice 10 years ago & (ii) listened to said advice it could have been invaluable. That said, I will offer a few tips, most of which I have learned the hard way and you or anyone thinking of playing full time can give them deeper thought or chuck them in your cognitive recycling bin.
- Can you deal with the social and health impacts of playing full time? Will you be able to stay healthy despite doing a pretty convincing mannequin challenge for a significant chunk of the week? It can be hard staying fit and healthy when spending so much of the week staring down at a computer screen while counting the minutes down to 55 minutes past the hour so you can finally nip to the loo and throw that Rustler's burger in the micro. With the likely extra hours you will be committing compared to 'regular jobs'... will you be able to maintain friendships, spend time with the kids, be attentive to your partner?
These are just a few completely basic things to consider for anyone giving thought to playing full time. After 7 years playing full time and maintaining very consistent and profitable results I realised that the way I was doing things was unsustainable. I realised I needed more funding behind me, more time to spend with my family, my fitness was nosediving and there was so much stress to continually meet financial commitments.So in light of that would I personally advise against playing poker full time?
Absolutely not! As mentioned, we are all different. I would advise being very honest with yourself and considering the points above. Playing a game you enjoy for a living, travelling, meeting new people and experiencing the rush of the bigger wins can be such a truely amazing buzz. Ironically that is why I stopped playing full time; so I could go back to education, get solid qualifications and a reasonable paying job behind me so I can then return to playing full time at a point in the future on a much more sustainable footing.
Playing full time can be a great experience. It comes at a price though and can become challenging in the extreme.
I sincerely wish anyone trying it the very best of luck!
I have had 3 spells of playing poker full-time. Downswings are mentally brutal in a way like nothing else I know, and there are numerous downsides to playing full-time (not least of which is that it is waaaaay harder now than, say, 5 years ago.
That said, it can be kinda fun occasionally
First of all, thank you very much for that informative and helpful response markycash. It has certainly given me a few things to think a little harder about to say the least. Life-balance is definitely a concern for me. I know for a fact that my physical activity (and fitness/health inevitably) have deteriorated a bit since taking the Poker more seriously. I used to go out walking quite a lot but that has taken a back seat and so have other activities I used to enjoy a bit more like going to the cinema to watch a movie as a personal escape from the world full-stop....I want to take the Poker seriously but at the same time I want to live, obviously from what you were saying something that has come to the forefront for you.
Money-wise, off my head (not good enough I know) I would be happy with making somewhere in the region of £40-£50 a day collectively once it all has been worked out....although I know that Poker can have its bad runs when you have to suck it up for a bit. Obviously, more would be nice but right now I just want to cover all the usual stuff - rent, bills, food, odd days/meals out for me and the girlfriend....The extras can wait for a bit.
I certainly enjoy the game enough to have it as the only source of income but I enjoy playing online so I guess my fears are about security in the long run if things change with the gambling scene in the UK and they become a bit stricter with online Poker and limit what is possible. However, having said that, job security is an issue no matter what you do.
Great reply by the way. Having such a positive and useful response is certainly a motivator to work hard to get things where they need to be.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/164/cash-game-poker-coach-listings/bluffthespot-coaching-profit-1629327/
Hi PK,
You said that, playing DYM's, cash, & Freerolls......
"....I would be happy with making somewhere in the region of £40-£50 a day...."
I can't see what cash games you may or may not play, but a quick peruse of Sharkscope shows us you are playing 5 or 6 x DYM's per day. These are usually £0.25p, £0.50, & £1.
You also play a MTT Freeroll every 3 or 4 days.
I need to be painfully blunt here. You are NEVER going to make £50 per day, day after day, playing at these levels. In fact, you could not make £5 per day playing 6 games per day at those levels. Ever.
You don't have to take my word for it - other experienced players will come on the thread later, I expect, & say exactly the same thing.
Even the very best player on this site could not make £50 per day playing half a dozen 25p, 50p & £1 DYM's each day. It is IMPOSSIBLE. £50 per day is £18,000 per year. I doubt there are more than a handful of players on the whole of Sky Poker who make that much every year playing SNG's or DYM's. And those guys play big stakes, £20, £50, £110, not 25p DYM's.
It also seems to me that you only play 1 table at a time. To have any chance of making any decent money at DYM's, you'd need to learn to multi table. (Minimum 5 or 6 at a time).
I'm all for "never giving up", "persevering", "always be optimistic", "glass half full" & all those things. But we also have to face reality.
Please face reality - you cannot do it.
You also wrote;
".....Having said that, this post is not about defeat and loss, it is about continuing on and fighting to overcome the odds of actually pulling it off.
Everything takes time to learn and to get better at. I'm not giving up......"
You MUST give up mate - you cannot possibly do it at these levels. Nobody on earth could. It's impossible.
You need to treat poker as a hobby, not a means of income. If you have a steady income, by all means play a bunch of DYM's every day with money you can afford to lose. But trying to earn money at those volumes and levels simply CANNOT BE DONE BY ANYONE.
If you want some advice & tips on improving your game, fire away, I'll try to help, & so will many far better players.
Good luck fella, but please face reality.
My own bank account is quite reasonable from having done Ebay sales for a while and was built up whilst in full-time work. However, doing that never allowed me to focus on the Poker as I wanted and I want to take it serious. So I put my back to the wall and am in a transition phase of improving my game to jump up a little in stake levels.
That's a great link there A1 and much appreciated :-)
Ok look. I am no illusion that at the stake levels I play at the present time that funding a living (at min wage even) is none viable. I haven't made myself clear enough though. I have a bank account behind me from other funds. The Poker is something I am aiming to improve to allow it to overtake and be my main source of income....Obviously though I have started at the lowest stakes to be cautious and develop a system or systems to enable me to learn how to play different games, find which works for me, and then I will progress.
There is another thing. I'm not a quitter. And I figured that in order to become good at Poker I had to focus on it solely. And if it turns out that I sink - fine. But you can't become great at something unless you treat it as life or death.
I'm at a point where I feel that I am starting to turn around. I am much better at reading players and situations than what I was and I haven't come to this point to give up. Let me make that clear.....Because if every player gave up before or during the transitional period (by which I mean the period where they have learnt the basics and are now pushing off from that and able to apply more advanced plays to start earning profit) then there would be few if any pro-players at all because nobody would play long enough to start winning....
Did any of the profitably players start off making money from day 1? No, they lost a ton load first and they wanted to blow their god-damn brains out on occasion because they wondered what the heck they were doing and if they were complete and utter morons for thinking it was possible.
I'm never going to allow myself to be in debt from Poker. I will never risk my entire life savings or bank roll. Never. I'm not stupid....Having said, I will put my balls to the wall and fight to get to where I want to be.
I'm a low-level and somewhat weak player but I tell you this right now....
I am going to turn this around. I am going to find a way of making money from this game. I am going to develop my own system and styles of play and I am going to up my game til I get the money and life I want.
And if I have to go back to other sources of income to float the boat, then fine. But I am going to become one of the greatest Poker players of all time.
I only said about becoming one of the greatest ever Poker players because I was starting to get irritated at the negativity of some of the replies. I'm under no illusion that the likes of Daniel Negreanu and Phil Ivey are two of a very very small group.
Ok, I'm going to hit the baseball back at you now. You've got under my skin....
This post was not a cry out for opinions about whether or not I should quit Poker. It was an honest post about finding Poker tough, which most players do, and reaching out to others finding things tough to give them some reassurances they are not alone - that was it.
Now a number of you are telling me to quit Poker. Why the hell should I quit Poker just because you tell me to? Give me your opinion by all means but there is a difference between saying "I think you would be better off quitting in my humble (or not so humble) opinion" and "Oh I think you should just give Poker up...because well I said so"
Gee whizz, the balls of some you folks is ridiculous....
I am learning the game. I know my game is not good enough right now to make a living off. Tell me which one of you, if any, was making a good profit (or indeed a profit at all) within your honeymoon period. Probably none of you, and you tell me to quit because I'm not making a profit right off the bat?
My position is this. I am learning. My hope would be to get to a point where I can make a living (not from what I am playing now - I am testing different sub-games to see which I would prefer) but like I said, I'm happy to go back to work and do other stuff alongside it if necessary.
Right that's it. I haven't got anything more to say on this subject.
Thank you for all your replies. Over and out.
Poker is tough and its getting harder. Getting better at poker is something we all strive to do. You are trying to go from a losing position to making a full time income from the game, this isn't an easy thing to do. You said about it being relegated to a hobby and this is the best thing you could do. When you start making good money from your hobby then you can start thinking about whether you would like to do it for a living.
As for the Russian Roulettes....that is something I will never do again. As you bring it up however, they also account for the majority of my loss.
Nighty night folks.....save me some of the popcorn puma :-)