Turbo DYM - Early double up

MP33

Or triple up for that matter. I folded aces pre-flop for the first time the other day in level 2 against the guy in 2nd place

I,d tripled up in level 1 and would normally snap call to try and finish the game but felt a bit unsure how to play with such a big stack so early. So was just wondering how other ppl play after doubling up in level 1.

Do you tighten up and hope the others will knock eack other out or use your stack to bully the others and nick some blinds? (I,ve done both but its suprising how quickly you can get dragged back into it if you just keep folding)

hhyftrftdr

I don't think the turbo structure allows you to fold to the money generally.

What were the stack sizes in the AA hand? You're on about 3k I'm guessing if you'd already trebled...unless 2nd is also well chipped up then I'm ending it now. If 2nd is also stacked then that must mean at least one micro stack, still got the HH?

Lambert180

+1 to Harry *shudder*

I can't see many situations where I'd say fold AA preflop in a turbo DYM with the info you've given. It would have to be a situation where say you have 3k, the person all in has 2k+ in chips, it's the bubble AND someone is on like 600-700 chips or less, but cos of the number of chips in play, if you have 3k, and someone else has 2k, that means 2 players only have the other 1k to share between them in which case you can just stay clear or any pots.

It is only 1k starting stack right? So you have 3k of the 6k in play? 

If so, I'd assume 2nd place doesn't have like 2k+ chips otherwise the rest would have virtually nothing (and it is only level 2) so 2nd place probably has a stack small enough that won't harm us too much so I'm going with it

MP33

argghhh - just done that thing where you write a long post and then realise your not logged and lost it

Can,t find the HH now but i was on about 2.8k and the all in guy was on 1.6k (The other 2 were on about the same)

I,d normally snap it off but remembered something someone wrote in JohnConners DYM blog about how he was suprised that he,d "only" had to fold AA pre about 15 times in all the games he,d played. Can,t remember his name but he was a pro and think this swayed my decision

My main issue wih Turbo DYM,s atm tho is when i get that early double up i struggle with how to play from there. I used to just lock up and fold away but i seemed to be getting dragged back into it more and more. I see different players playing different styles now. Some use their stack to bully the shorties and others lock up and fold until they cash or have to play a hand.

It may have been asked before but was wondering in a turbo with a 1K starting stack, how low do you go before you shove with any 2 cards and supposing we,ve still not reached the bubble?

Phantom66

I would calling pre with AA there. Especially with 3 equal stacks that can all hurt you. 

The dynamics of a Turbo mean you can very rarely fold your way to the money and you know you are 80%+ to cash there and then and you are not out of it by any means if you lose. 

As for when to open with the big stack, it is all about relative stack sizes and what sort of ranges you think players behind will take you on with from a min raise or a shove.

Some people are way too tight and are easy to take advantage of.

It is also usually best to open v a mid stack than it is a short stack if you are essentially stealing. Mid stacks should only be taking you on with strong hands so if you have enough chips to min-raise/fold they are the spots to try it if you are chip leader but finding yourself a bit card dead. Once the blinds go up then you will need to be shoving not minraising, but try to do so v midstacks or shortstacks who you know are still likely to fold way too often.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Turbo DYM - Early double up:

argghhh - just done that thing where you write a long post and then realise your not logged and lost it Can,t find the HH now but i was on about 2.8k and the all in guy was on 1.6k (The other 2 were on about the same) I,d normally snap it off but remembered something someone wrote in JohnConners DYM blog about how he was suprised that he,d "only" had to fold AA pre about 15 times in all the games he,d played. Can,t remember his name but he was a pro and think this swayed my decision My main issue wih Turbo DYM,s atm tho is when i get that early double up i struggle with how to play from there. I used to just lock up and fold away but i seemed to be getting dragged back into it more and more. I see different players playing different styles now. Some use their stack to bully the shorties and others lock up and fold until they cash or have to play a hand. It may have been asked before but was wondering in a turbo with a 1K starting stack, how low do you go before you shove with any 2 cards and supposing we,ve still not reached the bubble?
Posted by MP33

Those figures can't add up? There are only 6k chips in play and above you're looking at 7.6k ish! Seems trivial but the stack size of the shortest player/s is gonna be crucial in a spot like this on the bubble.

As for general stuff, even doubling up early doors doesn't guarantee anything due to the nature of the turbo games. I'd certainly be using my stack to attack the medium guys, and you can also go after similar sized stacks as they shouldn't be tangling with you very often.

If you can identify the player/s who will pass to a min raise then just min them with any 2 in good spots; if they shove on you 1 in 5 times but you steal 4 in 5 times then that keeps your head above water.

If you have a reasonable hand but not an ideal one to be raise calling off with then just go all in pre and leave the decision on them; obv this is stack size dependent among other things but not giving them the chance to realise their fold equity is always a good thing for us. People's calling range, especially on the bubble, is gonna be much tighter than their jamming range. Sometimes you'll run into AA/KK etc but you can always get there

Essentially, keep your foot on the gas even if chipped up, no need to go crazy but the turbo structure means you can be sucked back in again very quickly if you keep folding and people keep staying alive. If you can keep yourselves away from the 'you or them' situations on the bubble then its all gravy.

HENDRIK62

In Response to Re: Turbo DYM - Early double up:

In Response to Re: Turbo DYM - Early double up : Those figures can't add up? There are only 6k chips in play and above you're looking at 7.6k ish! Seems trivial but the stack size of the shortest player/s is gonna be crucial in a spot like this on the bubble. As for general stuff, even doubling up early doors doesn't guarantee anything due to the nature of the turbo games. I'd certainly be using my stack to attack the medium guys, and you can also go after similar sized stacks as they shouldn't be tangling with you very often. If you can identify the player/s who will pass to a min raise then just min them with any 2 in good spots; if they shove on you 1 in 5 times but you steal 4 in 5 times then that keeps your head above water. If you have a reasonable hand but not an ideal one to be raise calling off with then just go all in pre and leave the decision on them; obv this is stack size dependent among other things but not giving them the chance to realise their fold equity is always a good thing for us. People's calling range, especially on the bubble, is gonna be much tighter than their jamming range. Sometimes you'll run into AA/KK etc but you can always get there Essentially, keep your foot on the gas even if chipped up, no need to go crazy but the turbo structure means you can be sucked back in again very quickly if you keep folding and people keep staying alive. If you can keep yourselves away from the 'you or them' situations on the bubble then its all gravy.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Obsessed.

MP33

In Response to Re: Turbo DYM - Early double up:

In Response to Re: Turbo DYM - Early double up : Those figures can't add up? There are only 6k chips in play and above you're looking at 7.6k ish! Seems trivial but the stack size of the shortest player/s is gonna be crucial in a spot like this on the bubble. As for general stuff, even doubling up early doors doesn't guarantee anything due to the nature of the turbo games. I'd certainly be using my stack to attack the medium guys, and you can also go after similar sized stacks as they shouldn't be tangling with you very often. If you can identify the player/s who will pass to a min raise then just min them with any 2 in good spots; if they shove on you 1 in 5 times but you steal 4 in 5 times then that keeps your head above water. If you have a reasonable hand but not an ideal one to be raise calling off with then just go all in pre and leave the decision on them; obv this is stack size dependent among other things but not giving them the chance to realise their fold equity is always a good thing for us. People's calling range, especially on the bubble, is gonna be much tighter than their jamming range. Sometimes you'll run into AA/KK etc but you can always get there Essentially, keep your foot on the gas even if chipped up, no need to go crazy but the turbo structure means you can be sucked back in again very quickly if you keep folding and people keep staying alive. If you can keep yourselves away from the 'you or them' situations on the bubble then its all gravy.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I meant the other 2 were on simiar size stacks (about 700).

I,ve cut down my tables and v.rarely play more than 3-4 games at a time now to try and get more reads on ppl rather than just play 10 tables on auto-pilot . ( i used to think you could on DYM,s )  I,ve noticed a few DYM players recently tho  comment on how their results have improved when playing less tables - i guess its the same for any format

Have been dabbling on another site recently playing 4 player STT,s with 2 min blinds and 100 starting stack. It makes these turbo DYM,s seem like deepstacks but in retrospect this looks like a call now. 

MP33

In Response to Re: Turbo DYM - Early double up:

I would calling pre with AA there. Especially with 3 equal stacks that can all hurt you.  The dynamics of a Turbo mean you can very rarely fold your way to the money and you know you are 80%+ to cash there and then and you are not out of it by any means if you lose.  As for when to open with the big stack, it is all about relative stack sizes and what sort of ranges you think players behind will take you on with from a min raise or a shove. Some people are way too tight and are easy to take advantage of. It is also usually best to open v a mid stack than it is a short stack if you are essentially stealing. Mid stacks should only be taking you on with strong hands so if you have enough chips to min-raise/fold they are the spots to try it if you are chip leader but finding yourself a bit card dead. Once the blinds go up then you will need to be shoving not minraising, but try to do so v midstacks or shortstacks who you know are still likely to fold way too often.
Posted by Phantom66

yeah - totally agree - i am looking at this more since cutting tables down

LexLuthor

As for a strategy if you manage to double up early, remember that a big stack can quickly become a short stack in Turbo's and if you play too passively you can quickly find yourself having to navigate a tricky bubble once a couple of players catch up.  As general piece of advice use you stack to put pressure on the mid-stack players and players that you know are very tight but at the same time don't start doing anything too reckless.

With respect to your Aces, you're over thinking it, I've never folded Aces preflop in my life in any format.

One exception to that could be if you were literally on the bubble (same goes for any satellite/Tourney not just a DYM) and you're facing a very agressive big stack who you just know would be likely to give you trouble when there is maybe one other player on life support and you are relatively comfortable and have no need to go to war.

In that spot I'd just focus on pot control and not over-committing to anything post flop.