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** JACKPOT SYNDICATE BETTING PERCENTAGE STRATEGY EXPLAINED **

edited May 2017 in Betting Chat
A good maths lesson.
My brain would go into meltdown if I tried to understand that.
It's a good thing you are at the helm.

Comments

  • edited May 2017
    Hi,

    I have explained briefly in previous posts about the strategy we are adopting as a syndicate.

    It primarily works on covering at least 60% of the betting market in each race.

    Well, it's OK me saying that, but what does that actually mean? I hope to explain here:

    When bookmakers offer odds on horses they apply what is called a betting percentage, which is usually about 20%. So what does this mean?

    Simply stated it means if they lay each horse proportionally to it's price for every £100 they take, they make £20 profit, and that is "utopia" for them.

    The odds we go by in out spreadsheets are the best odds available by the leading bookmakers and usual have a "best book" percentage of about 110%, meaning you can get that percentage down to 10% if you shop around.

    Ok, lets assume for now that the "best book" percentage is 100%. (It's not, but we'll assume that for this purpose)

    So what does that mean? Well that is fairly straight forward, put simply, it means the following:

    An even money chance has a 50% chance of winning, a 3/1 chance a 25% chance of winning and a 9/1 chance a 10% chance of winning etc.

    Slightly more complex, but a 7/4 shot would have a 36.36% chance of winning.

    The formula for calculating the "chance of winning according to the odds" is as follows:

    If the odds are X to Y, the chance of it winning is Y / (X+Y)

    So for a 2/1 shot X = 2 and Y = 1. therefore it has a 1/(2+1) = a 1 in 3 chance, or 33.33%.

    Lets say we have an odds on favourite at 4/7, following the same formula, X = 4 and Y = 7, the chance of winning is:

    7/(4+7) = 7/11 = 63.64%

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OK with the above? Well we know the "best book" average is about 110% not 100%, so we need to take 10% off of the percentages quoted previously.

    This, for example would mean in reality an Even Money shot has a 45% chance of winning, not 50%, hence why bookmakers make a profit.

    All clear?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So my aim is to cover approximately 2/3rds of the betting market in each race, how this is done depends on the race card configuration. Let me give you a couple of examples:

    Lets say in Leg1 we have three horses in our perm who's odds are, Evs, 4/1 and 9/1 respectively, how much of the betting market have we covered with these selections? Using the fore mention formulas it would be as follows:

    50% + 20% +10 % = 80%

    We then need to take off 10% (The betting percentage), so the figure is 72%, which is > 70% so I am happy.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lets say in Leg2, we have our "banker" which is a 1/2 shot.

    With this horse alone we cover 66.6%, minus 10% = 60% of the betting market, so not ideal, but close enough.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Let say Leg3 is an open handicap, and we have six selections at the following prices:

    4/1, 6/1, 9/1, 10/1 12/1, 16/1

    Our coverage would equal approx (20%+14%+10%+9%+8%+6%) = 67% minus 10% = 60%

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If the remover's do their jobs well, then theoretically our chances will be slightly better than those stated above.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyhow, lets say that we get 66.66% coverage in each race, from a purely statistical perspective, this means the following.

    Our chance of winning is 66.66% to the power of 6. Or 2/3rds to the power of 6 = 8.78%

    So if we achieve the above, over time, we should win approx. 1 in 12 times.

    It's a bit like rolling a dice, if it is a 1,2,3 or 4, you win that leg.

    If it is a 5 or 6 you lose.

    We are attempting to roll the dice six times without getting a 5 or a 6.

    My belief is that "on average" our return will be greater than 12 times our stake.

    I hope this helps people to understand the strategy.

    Cheers,

    G
  • edited May 2017
    good write up mate
  • edited May 2017


    Great post Graham, cheers.
  • edited May 2017
    A little poker analogy.

    If we can cover as much as 70% of the betting market in each leg, it is like trying to get KK to hold against AK six times.

    Rarely you will win 3 or less times, mostly you'll win 4 out of 6 , sometimes 5 and occasionally six. (1 in 8.5 times approx.)

    If you do win six on the bounce, you'd have a pretty big stack.

    That is in effect, what we are trying to do. :=)
  • edited May 2017


      Well done G, really appreciate this post ( may have to read 2 or 3 times ) but great post.


      Thanks

      Roger
  • edited May 2017
    OK, I thought I would write a post on how the removers can help, and their statistical significance.

    In fact they can make a massive difference.

    Lets say that the removers successfully remove an 8/1 shot every leg.

    If the betting percentage is 10% then An 8/1 shot is 10% of the market (1/9 * 0.9 ) = 10%.

    So lets say that I have covered 2/3rds of the betting market in every leg as planned. Part of the 1/3rd I have not covered is the successfully removed 8/1 shots.

    So this means that based on  the removers skill we have covered 66.66% of the market and correctly eliminated 10% of the market, making a total of 76.66%.

    So our chance of success (based on the successful removal of 10% of the market in each leg) is now:

    76.66% to the power of 6 = approx 20%

    So based on the successful elimination of six horses with prices around the 8/1 mark our chance of success increases significantly from 1 in 12 to 1 in 5.

    This is why I really want the input of "horse racing form" enthusiasts and for us to become adept at the removal selection process.

    Clearly we are not going to get it right all the time, but when we do, we are more than twice as likely to succeed, just by successfully removing one 8/1 shot per race.

    Food for thought.

    Cheers,

    G
  • edited May 2017
    its a good strategy but removing all the say 8-1 shots will leave us with just fav's and 2nd favs so if we win we be sharing with a big % of field.
    today i though the 1st 3 fav's where going to win easily and was wrong as first 2 lost. 

    ive always been a outsider backer for value and can pick a fav to lose, today me and mk picked a horse which imo was only fav due to stepping down in grade which will need to step down another grade before its in correct company. mondialiste i think was name
    and me and you removed battersea which i noticed alot of the tipsters was giving.
    imo these bold moves will get us a big jackpot which will give us the edge that other syndicates havent got by them just selecting all the market movers and 1st and 2nd fav's.

    your maths tho mate wow
  • edited May 2017
    In Response to Re: ** JACKPOT SYNDICATE STRATEGY EXPLAINED **:
    its a good strategy but removing all the say 8-1 shots will leave us with just fav's and 2nd favs so if we win we be sharing with a big % of field. today i though the 1st 3 fav's where going to win easily and was wrong as first 2 lost.  ive always been a outsider backer for value and can pick a fav to lose, today me and mk picked a horse which imo was only fav due to stepping down in grade which will need to step down another grade before its in correct company. mondialiste i think was name and me and you removed battersea which i noticed alot of the tipsters was giving. imo these bold moves will get us a big jackpot which will give us the edge that other syndicates havent got by them just selecting all the market movers and 1st and 2nd fav's. your maths tho mate wow
    Posted by MICKYBLUE
    Hi Micky, I agree.

    I just used 8/1 shots as an example, as it made the maths easy as they are 10% of the betting market.

    What I am saying is that if the removers can successfully remove an average of 10% in each leg, whether it is a 16/1 shot in one and a 4/1 shot in another, that would really help our chances. The 8/1 per leg example was just to keep the maths easy for explanations sake.

    Cheers,

    G
  • edited May 2017
    Hi Micky, as further explanation, please see below:

    Lets say that 2/3rds of the market is covered in each leg, then in addition to that, the following odds horses were successfully removed.

    4/1, 12/1, 9/1, 8/1, 5/1, 16/1

    Then using the previous formulas, our chance of success becomes

    0.866 * 0.736 * 0.756 * 0.766 * 0.816 * 0.719 = 21.66%

    The 21.66 percent is dependant on all the removers horses losing.

    I just didn't want to baffle people with science, so previously used 8/1 shots as examples for each leg. Also in reality we would potentially be removing more than one horse in each leg. For example removing one 4/1 shot gets us the same betting percentage as removing two 9/1 shots, and visa versa. Both scenarios representing 20% * 0.9 = 18% of the betting market.

    Also following on from, and in agreement with your comment, if we only did favourites and second favourites, the dividend would likely be low, which is why we do a wide perm, to give us a chance of a big dividend and/or potentially being the only winners.

    Cheers,

    G
  • edited May 2017
    mate id had a few when posted and after reading it again i realised it was just a example, great posts as usual.
  • edited May 2017
    whilst the removers is good I hope we look at people with strong fancies as well. I gave Tabarrak the other day and it wasn't used, ok gave a loser as well but the form and gelding op and trainer form made it a very good bet at 6-1 . Like Micky value is the thing anybody can pick short odds losers and bet on them. what we want is the ones that are poor value and likely to lose and get rid of them. 
  • edited May 2017
    tbh we should second horses that are given 

    i also had money on tabarrak but dont think i mentioned it.
  • edited May 2017
    In Response to Re: ** JACKPOT SYNDICATE STRATEGY EXPLAINED **:
    whilst the removers is good I hope we look at people with strong fancies as well. I gave Tabarrak the other day and it wasn't used, ok gave a loser as well but the form and gelding op and trainer form made it a very good bet at 6-1 . Like Micky value is the thing anybody can pick short odds losers and bet on them. what we want is the ones that are poor value and likely to lose and get rid of them. 
    Posted by vaigret

    Yes I take your point Vaigret and Micky.

    Tabarrak removal was a last minute decision to allow two horses in the first leg.

    I was unsure about it, and was umming ard argghing as to which one to remove in that leg and then I saw a post from Wynne flagging it up as a removal, so that made my mind up. (Sorry to mention that Wynne, but it was the truth abount my thought process, I had it as a remover too, so I'm not knocking you. :=))

    However yes, I agree, if someone really fancies a horse and it fits in with the strategy we should try to keep it where possible. Of course, I have to balance people's opinions and the cost of the perm.

    But good pick, and we should have listened, noted.

    So a note to all. Please continue/start to post fancies, although say no more than 4 a day, and I will include them where possible. Please make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR as to whether your choices are REMOVALS or INCLUSIONS, and try and give me at least an hours notice before the first race.


    Is that fair Vaigret/Micky?

    Cheers,

    G
  • edited May 2017
    i share the burden there as defo should of noted that i fancied the horse, i really didnt fancy the 1 i removed that ended up fav but can understand why it was left in.
    also we cant add everyones fancies or the cost would be far to high i also get that.

    on a decent rollover i would like it to be in for the full stake tho or is that not the plan?
  • edited May 2017
    completly fair Graham
  • edited May 2017
    In Response to Re: ** JACKPOT SYNDICATE STRATEGY EXPLAINED **:
    i share the burden there as defo should of noted that i fancied the horse, i really didnt fancy the 1 i removed that ended up fav but can understand why it was left in. also we cant add everyones fancies or the cost would be far to high i also get that. on a decent rollover i would like it to be in for the full stake tho or is that not the plan?
    Posted by MICKYBLUE
    Basically if we have it for a £1 it doubles the cost, and I'd rather have a perm twice the size for 50p than a perm half the size for £1.

    Funnily enough when I have got the Jackpot up in the past, I got it for the full £1.00 anyway as I had a NR in the race that the favourite won, so it's still possible to "double up"

    Lets say we were lucky enough to be the only winners and we had a non-runner when the favourite won, we'd have it for £2 but we'd still only receive the same amount as if we had it for £1.

    It would be gutting to not get it because we reduced the perm size so we could do it for £1 lines. One of the main reasons we are targeting the Jackpot and not the SCOOP6 is because it is 50p lines and we can hopefully cover 60%+ of the betting market in each leg without the cost being prohibitive.

    That's my thoughts anyway.

    Maybe if we get some decent cashes we can consider it at a later time, but at the moment, my choice is bigger perm at 50p.

    Cheers,

    G
  • edited May 2017
    completely fair
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