Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?

Kevilfish

What is the Sky Poker Community's view on this?

Definition of Gamble- 

1, to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes. 

2, to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.

Definition of Game-

1, a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators.

(definitions from dictionary.reference.com)

I would say poker is a GAME, it's not a game completely of chance, you can't compare it with a game like roulette, there is no skill in roulette - you can have strategies but there is none proven to work 100%, you can put the odds in your favour but there is no guarantee to win therefore it is a gamble. 

In poker there is a large element of skill mixed with variance. I say variance and not luck because the odds of you winning will be different each time you go all in, you could go in a 90% favourite one time and a 51% favourite the next, it isn't variance in roulette because the odds and the chance of you hitting your number will always be the same, it is all luck when you put the casino chips on that number in it's spinning life if it comes in when you bet it.  

The better poker players will be winning players in the long term - by making correct decisions - so how can it be luck when you get the same players making profits year after year and unless they improve, the same losing players finishing in the red year after year?

MereNovice

Poker is both a game and a form of gambling.
It is clearly within the definition you have given for both words.
Just because a game has an element of skill doesn't preclude it from being considered gambling.

On another note, it is impossible to "put the odds in your favour" in roulette assuming an unbiased wheel and a fair game unless you are the "house".

TORTUS007

I'd say poker is a gambling game,where greater experience and know how,should give you an advantage.

Kevilfish

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

Poker is both a game and a form of gambling. It is clearly within the definition you have given for both words. Just because a game has an element of skill doesn't preclude it from being considered gambling. On another note, it is impossible to "put the odds in your favour" in roulette assuming an unbiased wheel and a fair game unless you are the "house".
Posted by MereNovice

I was meaning using a system like the martingale roulette system, it doesn't guarantee a win but it means you only need to hit one red/black in every 5 or 6 spins which is more likely than picking 3 or 4 numbers each spin.

POTTSY82

I reckon its a game if theres no money involved, gambling if there is.

unknown_username

Poker, when played for money, is a game of ''considered wager'

I've never thought of myself as a gambler. For instance I don't bet on the horses or anything else for that matter.

Poker is a game that can be played equally enjoyably without money changing hands. However, the skillset is higher where money is involved.

I've used this argument many, many times before, and if any of you tell my wife different I WILL kill you.

OMahonyO

Its gotta be both. A gambling game.  If you are a winning player, then the gamble is a short term thing.  The longer you play for ( I dont just mean in that session but over years ), the less of a gamble it becomes, until the gamble is tiny, if at all.

Take a look at peoples pt/hem graphs that you can find posted online where they have hundreds of thousands of hands.  Try telling them theyre gambling.

But, yes. I would say if there is money being bet, then its gambling.  If there is a game being played, it is a gambling game.

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

Its gotta be both. A gambling game.  If you are a winning player, then the gamble is a short term thing.  The longer you play for ( I dont just mean in that session but over years ), the less of a gamble it becomes, until the gamble is tiny, if at all. Take a look at peoples pt/hem graphs that you can find posted online where they have hundreds of thousands of hands.  Try telling them theyre gambling. But, yes. I would say if there is money being bet, then its gambling.  If there is a game being played, it is a gambling game.
Posted by OMahonyO

+1

great thread kevilfish !

Seagull158

In Response to Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

What is the Sky Poker Community's view on this? Definition of Gamble-  1, to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.  2, to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice. Definition of Game- 1, a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators. (definitions from dictionary.reference.com) I would say poker is a GAME, it's not a game completely of chance, you can't compare it with a game like roulette, there is no skill in roulette - you can have strategies but there is none proven to work 100%, you can put the odds in your favour but there is no guarantee to win therefore it is a gamble.  In poker there is a large element of skill mixed with variance. I say variance and not luck because the odds of you winning will be different each time you go all in, you could go in a 90% favourite one time and a 51% favourite the next, it isn't variance in roulette because the odds and the chance of you hitting your number will always be the same, it is all luck when you put the casino chips on that number in it's spinning life if it comes in when you bet it.   The better poker players will be winning players in the long term - by making correct decisions - so how can it be luck when you get the same players making profits year after year and unless they improve, the same losing players finishing in the red year after year?
Posted by Kevilfish

It meets the definition of a game 100% so it is first and foremost a game. There is an element of chance in the game so it partially meets the definition of a gamble. It can be argued that it does not meet the first defintion of gambling because it is not a game of chance but it does meet the second definition of gambling because it contains an element of chance within it.

loonytoons

Its a bit like the argument, what is classed a game and what is classed a sport

pod1

i think it depends on your mind set going into it. you can gamble on any sport and the outcome or you can play it for fun. poker like most sports can be a tool for either activities.

BelovedLtd

It's a game you can gamble on.

I don't really see where the confusion is, it's obviously a game and obviously you can gamble on it.

Poker, Blackjack, Cribbage, Chess, Monopoly, Ludo .................  every single game can be played with or without gambling - it's just traditionally/historically some have almost always been played for money and others have almost always been played without.

Kevilfish

The definition of poker-

1, a card game played by two or more persons, in which the players bet on the value of their hands, the winner taking the pool.

The definition of bet-

1, a pledge of a forfeit risked on some uncertain outcome.

I think the above definitions (both from dictionary.reference.com) both lean towards game, neither state anything HAS to be risked when you play poker, so therefore there CAN be no risk involved when you play the game, there is also the instance that you can play poker without putting chips into the pot (except for pre-flop limpage) unless you have the nuts on the river, meaning you aren't really risking anything because you know you're winning the hand. In reality, this wouldn't happen because the other players wouldn't let you get to the river without betting out and they probably wouldn't pay you off either but in terms of possibility, it IS POSSIBLE.

unknown_username

Poker is a Game which requires skill & chance, however, if you put money on it you are gambling on the outcome.

In all competitive sports or games there is a winner and if you put a wager on the outcome then you are gambling, so if you play cards for money, then you are gambling. If you play cards with no money then it could be classed as a game. 

Kevilfish

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

Poker is a Game which requires skill & chance, however, if you put money on it you are gambling on the outcome. In all competitive sports or games there is a winner and if you put a wager on the outcome then you are gambling, so if you play cards for money, then you are gambling. If you play cards with no money then it could be classed as a game. 
Posted by POKERTREV

or is it just paying an entry fee for the privilege of playing in a tournament or sng?

Like paying for entering a cinema or football ground, although you are paying to watch, not play.

BelovedLtd

I think the question is poorly defined

It suggests you either gamble or you play a game

But you don't just gamble - ever

You gamble on something

So you're gambling on winning a hand, or you're gambling on who wins a game of chess, or you're gambling on the points spread for how many pieces get taken in your game of chess, or the points winning margin on a game of scrabble etc  etc are with games

Gambling on horse's or football matches or the stock market or which rain drop gets to the bottom of the window first are not with games (for the purpose of this illustration at least)

Whether you're gambling or you're playing a game are two separate activities, suggesting it's one or the other is where the OP confused the issue imo

torryboy

Another question is do you need a gambling license to run a poker tournie in the pub etc?

The answer to your question lies within the answer to my one I think

unknown_username

You need a Gaming Licence.

Kevilfish

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

Another question is do you need a gambling license to run a poker tournie in the pub etc? The answer to your question lies within the answer to my one I think
Posted by torryboy

Quote from thenutspokerleague - Landlords section; "There is no need for a special licence".

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game? : Quote from thenutspokerleague - Landlords section; "There is no need for a special licence".
Posted by Kevilfish

Correct there is no need for a 'special' licence but all pubs which allow cribbage for instance need a gaming licence.

Mr_Miyagi

A CON!

-TARAS-

Having completely read and digested the aforementioned information i have come to the conclusion my brain hurts and i dont know the answer, the last time this medical condition occurred was following the question "What came first the chicken or the egg?"

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

In Response to Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game? : It meets the definition of a game 100% so it is first and foremost a game. There is an element of chance in the game so it partially meets the definition of a gamble. It can be argued that it does not meet the first defintion of gambling because it is not a game of chance but it does meet the second definition of gambling because it contains an element of chance within it.
Posted by Seagull158

According to UK gaming Law poker IS a game of chance (thus the legal problems and court case of the gutshot club)

So it is gambling and you require a casino license (although all but 1 of the card clubs in the uk don't have one) to operate a card room legaly

webby234

if you play poker for money then its  gambling, if you dont play for money its not gambling

you after be 18 to play poker for money so imo it is definitely a gambling game

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

Having completely read and digested the aforementioned information i have come to the conclusion my brain hurts and i dont know the answer, the last time this medical condition occurred was following the question "What came first the chicken or the egg?"
Posted by -TARAS-

pmsl !

GaryQQQ

Players who lose in the long term think it's gambling.

Players who win in the long term know it's a game of skill.

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: Is Poker Gambling or is it a Game?:

Players who lose more often than they win think it's gambling. Players who win more often than they lose know  it's a game of skill.
Posted by GaryQQQ

It has Elements of skill with a larger proportion of chance i'm afraid. Skillful players can beat the game in the long run but this is not a game of skill. The Best player in the world playing the game of his life, making every read, laying down at the right time and moving it in when he has his opponent crushed can and often will still lose on that day.

It is gambling as it's an uncertain outcome - it is not the same as roulette or craps but it is not a pure skill based game either