Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p

Sky__James

We have removed cash game tables at stakes of 4p/8p and 20p/40p. These are the least popular stakes as and we believe this will help liquidity at similar stakes as well as decluttering the lobby.

craigcu12

ahh that explains the lack of seat refilling on my last nl8 and it's vanish from lobby

Robbo67

Least popular does not mean unpopular

SR23

Sigh, 8NL is (a) the nuts and (b) probably my level. Oh well. 

Jac35

I was playing 20p/40p last night and there were at least 3 tables running.

I can't really see the point in removing this level.

This has to be personal right James?

First you take away my favourite dym level and now this!

I wonder if Haysies solicitor is taking on new clients...

I guess more room is needed for the spin up tables!

BigHawk89

RIP 40NL.

Duesenberg

It's a big thumbs down from me :-(

SMARTGOAT

There were usually 3/4 8NL games going during peak hours with a few regs. I always found the 8NL games filled up quite fast if i sat at an empty table. They usually offered great value and entertainment and I am dissapointed they have been removed.

 

Sky_SamT

This has been done on a trial basis and is not necessarily a permanent move. James will monitor performance of the games and act accordingly. We will as always take into account player feedback as well. 

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

This has been done on a trial basis and is not necessarily a permanent move. James will monitor performance of the games and act accordingly. We will as always take into account player feedback as well. 
Posted by Sky_SamT

For a company that is rumoured to be in the pipeline for an IPO at some stage in the near future, I often wonder if Sky have any commercial nouse. So you remove NL40 despite tables running pretty much anytime and it being a natural progression from nl30 (some people don't like the jump to nl50).

Then look at the effect of removing these tables, yes there are a lot more nl30 tables running and NL50 remains pretty much the same numbers wise. Please reconsider, there is no comparison between nl8 and nl40. And having nl40 doesn't clutter the lobby up in fact it gives sky a USP as most other sites offer only nl20 and nl50. 

 

GREGSTER

I can't see how you can say the NL40 tables cluttered the lobby, there was usually between 1 and 3 tables of it late in the evening. Just looked at the mid stakes lobby and currently 27 tables with 1 of 2 players sat there. If you want to de-clutter the lobby maybe look at the spawning of the HU tables.

Like someone posted above it is a big jump from NL30 to NL50.

Tikay10

Keep the constructive feedback coming please, & remember, this is a trial move, as Sam explained above.

68Trebor

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : For a company that is rumoured to be in the pipeline for an IPO at some stage in the near future, I often wonder if Sky have any commercial nouse. So you remove NL40 despite tables running pretty much anytime and it being a natural progression from nl30 (some people don't like the jump to nl50). Then look at the effect of removing these tables, yes there are a lot more nl30 tables running and NL50 remains pretty much the same numbers wise. Please reconsider, there is no comparison between nl8 and nl40. And having nl40 doesn't clutter the lobby up in fact it gives sky a USP as most other sites offer only nl20 and nl50.   
Posted by ACEGOONER

What is this 'IPO' you talk of? 

Jac35

Just looked at the lobby

There are 31 spin up tables there.

12 have no action.

Maybe look at those if you want to declutter.

Or find them their own tab

suneel7

This is a bumber!

8nl & 40nl are great transitional levels. Are you sure about 8nl? Always action at that level. As smart goat says, the tables filled up quickly, also at whatever time I played. Also is a big jump from 4nl to 10nl as it is from 30nl to 50nl.

Not a great move IMO.

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : What is this 'IPO' you talk of? 
Posted by 68Trebor

IPO stands for Initial Public Offering. Basically it means that the owners of SB&G who are a venture capitalist group called CVC partners are considering putting SB&G on the stock market as a listed company. Venture capitalists buy private companies fatten them up, then look to put them on the open market for a profit.

The last thing you want to do is alienate the player base. I know a few regs that I spoke to on NL50 last night that where not happy with this. 

If Sky Poker want to declutter the cash lobby they can start by removing the spin up tables, which have their own section at the top of the lobby anyway. There is no point in duplicating tables.

percival09

So, Sanj, I assume you also intend to lobby for 60nl? While you're at it 70nl? 80? These additions should each have the same effect as 40nl, i.e. they'll attract players from 50nl (as 40 does from the 30 pool) while keeping the volume @ 100nl the same. I don't know how you can say, with any certainty at least, that the 40nl player pool will all fall back to 30nl rather than jump to 50nl. Added to that is whether that's even much of a problem since 30nl games undoubtedly rake more, and if not, well, the difference is almost certainly negligible.

James made very clear with his post that the main reason for removal is lack of popularity, so your comment regarding spin-up games, potentially the most popular cash-game variant, seems misplaced. Sure, they clutter the lobby, but that point seems secondary in James's reasoning. Also, I know you're a business guy Sanj, but claiming 40nl tables give Sky a USP is absurd. 

'hey guys, yh, guess what? Sky offer these 40nl games. usually about 2 running @ prime time. think I might make the move from stars'

'WOW 40nl?!?!? NO WAY' 

Sky__James

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

This is a bumber! 8nl & 40nl are great transitional levels. Are you sure about 8nl? Always action at that level. As smart goat says, the tables filled up quickly, also at whatever time I played. Also is a big jump from 4nl to 10nl as it is from 30nl to 50nl. Not a great move IMO.
Posted by suneel7

It's a bigger jump from 50nl to 100nl but there has never been a call for 70nl. The games ran yes but not as much as they should.

Sky__James

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

I can't see how you can say the NL40 tables cluttered the lobby, there was usually between 1 and 3 tables of it late in the evening. Just looked at the mid stakes lobby and currently 27 tables with 1 of 2 players sat there. If you want to de-clutter the lobby maybe look at the spawning of the HU tables. Like someone posted above it is a big jump from NL30 to NL50.
Posted by GREGSTER

That's the nature of heads up games. Not along ago we reduced the spawning of these at the higher stakes. In any case you can filter HU games out.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

So, Sanj, I assume you also intend to lobby for 60nl? While you're at it 70nl? 80? These additions should each have the same effect as 40nl, i.e. they'll attract players from 50nl (as 40 does from the 30 pool) while keeping the volume @ 100nl the same. I don't know how you can say, with any certainty at least, that the 40nl player pool will all fall back to 30nl rather than jump to 50nl. Added to that is whether that's even much of a problem since 30nl games undoubtedly rake more, and if not, well, the difference is almost certainly negligible. James made very clear with his post that the main reason for removal is lack of popularity, so your comment regarding spin-up games, potentially the most popular cash-game variant, seems misplaced. Sure, they clutter the lobby, but that point seems secondary in James's reasoning. Also, I know you're a business guy Sanj, but claiming 40nl tables give Sky a USP is absurd.  'hey guys, yh, guess what? Sky offer these 40nl games. usually about 2 running @ prime time. think I might make the move from stars' 'WOW 40nl?!?!? NO WAY' 
Posted by percival09

I don't really get this post at all.

James mentioned two things. Liquidity and decluttering. I didn't see one as secondary.

The leaps at smaller stakes have always been smaller. There didint appear to be any need in Sanjs or a few others opinions to remove the 20/40.

I didn't see Sanj lobbying for further levels to be introduced. Just for the ones that have always been there to remain.

Maybe I missed that bit.

Sky__James

I'll add that liquidity is the most important. Getting more players used to playing the same stake as each other should result in more games starting. Decluttering is just a bonus.

percival09

"These are the least popular stakes as and we believe this will help liquidity at similar stakes as well as decluttering the lobby" 

From that I extract popularity clearly being the prominent reason, and that only makes sense too because if only the decluttering was an issue then spin-up games would be removed. He mentioned three things: popularity, liquidity and cluttering. A lack of popularity leads to unnecessary cluttering which disrupts liquidity. But of course everything is open to interpretation. 

Correct, he didn't say anything about 60nl. I didn't say he mentioned 60nl. I'm simply saying that one of his main defenses of 40nl games is that the player base will drop off to 30nl rather than to 50nl, i.e. he's saying an intermediate stake pulls players from the lower stake while not touching the higher stake, so Sky should keep intermediate stakes because if players are either going to play 40nl or 30nl, well, you'd rather them play 40nl. If this were true then introducing a 60nl game should work by the same principle, i.e. it should attract players from the 50nl player base, which is great right since it's a higher stake, while leaving the 100nl game untouched. I doubt this is how it works like I mentioned in my post, but that was one of his main defenses. 

And then to para '40nl is the natural progression from 30nl" really? so again, you want 60nl? 80nl? And then his final point regarding spin-up games I think I mentioned in my earlier post. 

Hope this clears things a little.

68Trebor

While you are at it, why not get rid of 10p/20p and 15p/30p and replace with 10p/25p.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

"These are the least popular stakes as and we believe this will help liquidity at similar stakes as well as decluttering the lobby"  From that I extract popularity clearly being the prominent reason, and that only makes sense too because if only the decluttering was an issue then spin-up games would be removed. He mentioned three things: popularity, liquidity and cluttering. A lack of popularity leads to unnecessary cluttering which disrupts liquidity. But of course everything is open to interpretation.  Correct, he didn't say anything about 60nl. I didn't say he mentioned 60nl. I'm simply saying that one of his main defenses of 40nl games is that the player base will drop off to 30nl rather than to 50nl, i.e. he's saying an intermediate stake pulls players from the lower stake while not touching the higher stake, so Sky should keep intermediate stakes because if players are either going to play 40nl or 30nl, well, you'd rather them play 40nl. If this were true then introducing a 60nl game should work by the same principle, i.e. it should attract players from the 50nl player base, which is great right since it's a higher stake, while leaving the 100nl game untouched. I doubt this is how it works like I mentioned in my post, but that was one of his main defenses.  And then to para '40nl is the natural progression from 30nl" really? so again, you want 60nl? 80nl? And then his final point regarding spin-up games I think I mentioned in my earlier post.  Hope this clears things a little.
Posted by percival09

Things were clear before.

But thanks 

It looks as though you're right, as James has just confirmed, and it is mainly about liquidity.

I agree with you in that I don't see people just dropping to 30nl rather than play 50nl either.

I do think that while nl40 was there, it was the natural progression from 30nl. I think that's how it generally works. Players move up to the next stake when they feel ready,

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

So, Sanj, I assume you also intend to lobby for 60nl? While you're at it 70nl? 80? These additions should each have the same effect as 40nl, i.e. they'll attract players from 50nl (as 40 does from the 30 pool) while keeping the volume @ 100nl the same. I don't know how you can say, with any certainty at least, that the 40nl player pool will all fall back to 30nl rather than jump to 50nl. Added to that is whether that's even much of a problem since 30nl games undoubtedly rake more, and if not, well, the difference is almost certainly negligible. James made very clear with his post that the main reason for removal is lack of popularity, so your comment regarding spin-up games, potentially the most popular cash-game variant, seems misplaced. Sure, they clutter the lobby, but that point seems secondary in James's reasoning. Also, I know you're a business guy Sanj, but claiming 40nl tables give Sky a USP is absurd.  'hey guys, yh, guess what? Sky offer these 40nl games. usually about 2 running @ prime time. think I might make the move from stars' 'WOW 40nl?!?!? NO WAY' 
Posted by percival09

Percy, I am only saying what I saw last night. There was a lot more nl30 tables running than usual. The general consensus of the people who play nl40 and Nl50 that I spoke to last night where disapointed that it was withdrawn at short notice. Sky is a small site, so alienating players that put in most of their volume at micro stakes doing something without consensus is pretty poor imo.   

Fair point about the spin up tables, not going to dispute your opinion there. 

Good to see you like a still like a good healthy argument. 

Edit: you still owe me £20 for that wager you had on Chelski finishing above Arsenal in season 2015/16. Nothing like a tight high stakes poker player ehhh . 

percival09

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : Percy, I am only saying what I saw last night. There was a lot more nl30 tables running than usual. The general consensus of the people who play nl40 and Nl50 that I spoke to last night where disapointed that it was withdrawn at short notice. Sky is a small site, so alienating players that put in most of their volume at micro stakes doing something without consensus is pretty poor imo.    Fair point about the spin up tables, not going to dispute your opinion there.  Good to see you like a still like a good healthy argument.  Edit: you still owe me £20 for that wager you had on Chelski finishing above Arsenal in season 2015/16. Nothing like a tight high stakes poker player ehhh . 
Posted by ACEGOONER

haha. I think we'll wipe the £20 after the 40nl USP blunder we had double or quits for 2016/17. I know you're just sticking up for the games you play, but as an outsider I felt James's points were getting more heat than they deserved. 

GREGSTER

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : That's the nature of heads up games. Not along ago we reduced the spawning of these at the higher stakes. In any case you can filter HU games out.
Posted by Sky__James

Fair enough James. I see you say it's mainly down to liquidity in another post, I just picked up on the de-cluttering part and it just seemed like me saying I'm going to de-clutter my garage, then going and throwing out two paintbrushes!

Thanks for the reply.
Greg.

percival09

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : Things were clear before. But thanks  It looks as though you're right, as James has just confirmed, and it is mainly about liquidity. I agree with you in that I don't see people just dropping to 30nl rather than play 50nl either. I do think that while nl40 was there, it was the natural progression from 30nl. I think that's how it generally works. Players move up to the next stake when they feel ready,
Posted by Jac35

Yeah. Cluttering can't be the primary reason for removing a game since if it's popular enough the cluttering doesn't matter (to sky at least). so naturally it's a secondary concern. I know it's probably nice to have a limit in between 30nl and 50nl for those players playing 30nl wanting to try out a higher stake, but for everyone else it seems pointless. 50nl players surely dislike it. If it is a 'natural progession' from 30nl, whatever that means, then there should be limitless intermediate stakes. I'm not having a go, it's just I've been playing poker a while and Sky is the only site that has 40nl games (USP right sanj), and I just don't see them as particularly useful. 

devonfish5

BRING BACK SOME 1p/2p TABLES

.....then make the next level 2p/5p  (which falls in line with some other sites)

.....then bring back that bloke Richard what's his name?

And all will be good in the world, again!  Lols

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : haha. I think we'll wipe the £20 after the 40nl USP blunder we had double or quits for 2016/17. I know you're just sticking up for the games you play, but as an outsider I felt James's points were getting more heat than they deserved. 
Posted by percival09

Double or quits?!!! Now you are bluffing for sure!

With regards to nl40 percy there are a lot of nL50 regs that will start or sit at running nl40 tables. I really don't think it bothers them. Regardless, the feedback I have had from other regs at the tables is they aren't happy with nl40 being removed. 

At the end of the day, it's the people who play these tables who really should have an input on whether sky keep them or not, and with the greatest of respect I haven't seen you at nl40 for years. I appreciate you are trying to give a balanced view, but I genuinely think sky poker is on the decline in terms of player numbers and liquidity these days. Even I have been flirting with other sites over the last few months.

There are several reasons to leave sky, with some of the stuff going down in recent years that have worked against not just regs but serious recreational players too (rakeback deals for newbies, alleged bots etc). Despite this sky still have a band of loyal players, that have supported the site for many years. 

percival09

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p:

In Response to Re: Cash tables removed at 4p/8p and 20p/40p : Double or quits?!!! Now you are bluffing for sure! With regards to nl40 percy there are a lot of nL50 regs that will start or sit at running nl40 tables. I really don't think it bothers them. Regardless, the feedback I have had from other regs at the tables is they aren't happy with nl40 being removed.  At the end of the day, it's the people who play these tables who really should have an input on whether sky keep them or not, and with the greatest of respect I haven't seen you at nl40 for years. I appreciate you are trying to give a balanced view, but I genuinely think sky poker is on the decline in terms of player numbers and liquidity these days. Even I have been flirting with other sites over the last few months. There are several reasons to leave sky, with some of the stuff going down in recent years that have worked against not just regs but serious recreational players too (rakeback deals for newbies, alleged bots etc). Despite this sky still have a band of loyal players, that have supported the site for many years. 
Posted by ACEGOONER

*sweating* *leaves room*

I suppose this is why we'll have to agree to disagree. 

24 years. I was more of a 50nl guy. 

Do they have 40nl games?