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I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!


Right chaps! You big hitters have worked through every level, I need to know how to respond to situations like these! This guy has been loose, I get the impression hes just here for a laugh, but may be wrong. Im losing buy in after buy in with hands like this, I cant see sets. He has 66, I have told u the hand, but would like to know how you play from here......Its killing my progress and If I dont sort it, Im never gonna get anywhere! Cheerz chaps!

History #236690566 (02:33 25/02/2010)
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
kidwiz10 Small blind  £0.50 £0.50 £184.46
scotty77 Big blind  £1.00 £1.50 £98.00
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
dannyhac21 Call  £1.00 £2.50 £106.49
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £5.00 £7.50 £83.61
sam1986 Fold     
rifman Fold     
kidwiz10 Call  £4.50 £12.00 £179.96
scotty77 Fold     
dannyhac21 Fold     
Flop
   
  • 6
  • 8
  • 3
     
kidwiz10 Check     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £9.00 £21.00 £74.61
kidwiz10 Raise  £18.00 £39.00 £161.96

Comments

  • edited February 2010
    ugh it hasnt posted right, hes playing £170, me 90, its NL100....
  • edited February 2010
    ugh I hate this situation too, I'd prob re raise, then he'd go all in and I'd be like, F... I know I should fold now but still call lol.
    You need reads also in this situation, e.g theres some people at 50nl that'll minraise me with 2nd pair, and others who will min raise me with the nuts. With no reads its difficult to assess what hes got. Just want to add that with such a short time available its often hard to believe a set.

    I guess the fact he only called pre he doesn't have AA and we assume he doesn't do it with air as we have no reads, so a low PP could of been viable and the min raise to your flop bet is where you might see a set.
  • edited February 2010
    man that sucks, you cant re-raise either because then your pretty much pot stuck so allin or fold :(, you could have min raised his min raise because then he would probably re-raise again but maybe an allin etc, then youve gotten away with petty much the minimum and still have around 50 left.
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    man that sucks, you cant re-raise either because then your pretty much pot stuck so allin or fold :(, you could have min raised his min raise because then he would probably re-raise again but maybe an allin etc, then youve gotten away with petty much the minimum and still have around 50 left.
    Posted by hurst05
    I like this idea, I'm sure he would have enough left behind to fold then. But if opponent just flats that bet what do we do? check/fold turn?
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me! : I like this idea, I'm sure he would have enough left behind to fold then. But if opponent just flats that bet what do we do? check/fold turn?
    Posted by NColley
    i would be very suprised if he just called, dohhhhh has shown agression preflop and post flop, plus the addiction of him raising his raise the oppo will be putting dohhhhh on a very strong hand here, and with the board flushing and straightening, just in case dohhhh has like a-k nut flush draw then im pretty sure he will be pushing there. IF he just calls then depending what the turn card is then your probably going to have the same outcome, but like i say, i think the villain will be pushing if dohhhh had min raised his min raise
  • edited February 2010
    You played it fine.  This villain stacks off with way worse than sets here...you just got unlucky that he had 66 and not K8.

    Hand History #236691445 (02:53 25/02/2010) PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance scotty77 Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £109.98 dannyhac21 Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £91.90   Your hole cards 10 10       sam1986 Fold         kidwiz10 Call   £1.00 £2.50 £205.00 scotty77 Raise   £4.50 £7.00 £105.48 dannyhac21 Call   £4.00 £11.00 £87.90 kidwiz10 Call   £4.00 £15.00 £201.00 Flop     10 5 A       scotty77 Bet   £7.50 £22.50 £97.98 dannyhac21 Call   £7.50 £30.00 £80.40 kidwiz10 Call   £7.50 £37.50 £193.50 Turn     3       scotty77 Check         dannyhac21 Check         kidwiz10 Bet   £12.00 £49.50 £181.50 scotty77 Raise   £42.75 £92.25 £55.23 dannyhac21 Fold         kidwiz10 All-in   £181.50 £273.75 £0.00 scotty77 All-in   £55.23 £328.98 £0.00 kidwiz10 Unmatched bet   £95.52 £233.46 £95.52 scotty77 Show 10 10       kidwiz10 Show K A       River     Q       scotty77 Win Three 10s £231.66   £231.66
  • edited February 2010
    Just unlucky if he playing so loose... you can't fold KK if you have this read on his play... he could easily have min raised with a flush draw or top pair!

    The money is always going in, cooler city 
  • edited February 2010
    Mate, this must have happened not long after I left - you were right to lose a BI against this guy - you knew he was loose and you saw him push all in against me and others!! I am going bust against this player every day of the week mate - with your hand there!!
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    Right chaps! You big hitters have worked through every level, I need to know how to respond to situations like these! This guy has been loose, I get the impression hes just here for a laugh, but may be wrong. Im losing buy in after buy in with hands like this, I cant see sets. He has 66, I have told u the hand, but would like to know how you play from here......Its killing my progress and If I dont sort it, Im never gonna get anywhere! Cheerz chaps! History #236690566 (02:33 25/02/2010) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance kidwiz10 Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £184.46 scotty77 Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £98.00   Your hole cards K K       dannyhac21 Call   £1.00 £2.50 £106.49 DOHHHHHHH Raise   £5.00 £7.50 £83.61 sam1986 Fold         rifman Fold         kidwiz10 Call   £4.50 £12.00 £179.96 scotty77 Fold         dannyhac21 Fold         Flop     6 8 3       kidwiz10 Check         DOHHHHHHH Bet   £9.00 £21.00 £74.61 kidwiz10 Raise   £18.00 £39.00 £161.96
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH


    Fold if he has 66? What on earth is this?


    You need to assess what type of player he is, and then use that information to assign him a selection of hands that he would call preflop from the sb (if he is aware of position) and that he would then check and minraise you on that sort of a board.

    If you say that he could have the following :-

    88/66/33/86s/86o/63s/all Ax of clubs, some Kx of clubs/A8/45s/57s/79s

    then we have 47.8% equity overall. 


    If he is going to continue for an all in with all of these hands (which really isn't very likely) then the easiest way to play the hand is to move in on the flop and don't try and second guess yourself on later streets. 

    If he folds all the draws and non set/2pr hands then you should be more inclined to call the flop and try to get  your money in on the turn, you obviously have to decide which turn cards are good for you and which aren't. Remembering that even if a club comes unless he has the nut flush we still have good equity.


    The check min raise is an often used play and in many situations people have the relative nuts in their head and don't want to scare you off.  Others make this play with top pair plus and some like to bluff using this line. You need to make notes on players when you see them doing this kind of move to help you formulate the range of hands they will have in later situations.


    Another important point IS DO NOT PUT RESULTS IN YOUR ORIGINAL POST. 

    When you went to play this hand, did you have a little window pop up showing you a pair of sixes? Because we can see 66 in your post, it's a lot easier to know what to do when you can see someones cards. The responses you get will be biased by the results and this will not improve your play or help you next time you get into one of these situations.
  • edited February 2010

    If I dont tell people the hand, all I get is a guess at what the guy has, and what people would do in my shoes. 

    The post was meant to much more broad than that specific hand, and I only posted it as an example of a tough spot which I find myself in regularly.

    I know Im losing a buy in against this guy, on that flop, every time.

    I want general advice on controlling the pot, and not stacking off so easily, I just shoved his min raise on the flop, as a couple of guys have already posted, he plays back with alot worse It was unlucky he'd hit against me (Ise he gave it straight to scotty within the next 20 mins before the site closed!!! lol)


    I need to start limiting the damage in these sorts of situations, coz I make it too easy for the guy to get full value.

    I play very aggressive most sessions at lower levels, NL30/40/50, so Im also aware that people play back at me alot with weaker hands than they would most.

    Typing all these things into the call/fold/raise calculator, and I kinda get lost! 

    Thanx for the replies, DOHH
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    I need to start limiting the damage in these sorts of situations, coz I make it too easy for the guy to get full value. I play very aggressive most sessions at lower levels, NL30/40/50, so Im also aware that people play back at me alot with weaker hands than they would most.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Pls dont start trying to save money with kings on very draw heavy boards.


    Otherwise you will start playing cash like Phil Hellmuth!! Every hand you play you should be looking to get the maximum value, and premiums like kings and aces will be your bread and butter.


    I cant quite understand the whole of your post, but my point was the hh you gave, had in the short paragraph that you wrote about it what hand he had, you need to be playing against all the kinds of hands he can have.


    In this sort of spot when I have been check min raised I am nearly always calling to see a turn card, most likely I will stack off against someone who has check min-raised because that betting pattern is so weak. I would then just make a note of the hand that they turned up with and use that to my advantage when playing future pots.
    If I didn't have the King of clubs in my hand I would be more likely shove the flop or call flop and fold the turn.
  • edited February 2010
    Pretty worrying that you're playing nl100sterling and you don't know how to max get value out of this kind of hand vs varying villains. I'd step down if I was you or table select really well so regs won't crush you. 
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    Pretty worrying that you're playing nl100sterling and you don't know how to max get value out of this kind of hand vs varying villains. I'd step down if I was you or table select really well so regs won't crush you. 
    Posted by zing
    Pr@t! 

    Where on this thread have I mentioned extracting maximum value?

    The question is about limiting the damage. - Learn to read - and thanx for the help! 
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me! : Pr@t!  Where on this thread have I mentioned extracting maximum value? The question is about limiting the damage. - Learn to read - and thanx for the help! 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    As I said the whole point is not to play like Hellmuth and look to always limit losses. You have a King and a King.
  • edited February 2010
    Yes you should be limiting damage when you play KK, good plan.
  • edited February 2010
    Okay so everytime I have an overpair to the board, Im never gonna fold, and always going to lose a buy in?

    Surely theres an inbetween, its not all or nothing?

    Imagine the stacks are 300 bbs deep, now try and be abit more constructive.

    And please dont use this specific hand, the thread wasnt about this hand, its just illustrating a tough spot, instead of me trying to explain!

    Its player specific, of course, how do you handle these spots in general, when you get that feeling, there must be a way? - Im trying to improve my game here. 

    As for your comment about game selection, Im rolled for NL100, Ive got a modest record there - used to lose alot when I was taking shots whilst playing reg at nl50 (usually coz I was drunk and thought I could take on the world) - But recently have been playing and had a few winning sessions there in a row. 

    No comments about "every dog has its day" please - we'll see if Im good enough to win there over the next few months - this thread is aimed at making sure I am!

    Thanx, DOHH
  • edited February 2010
    I'm not here to take meaningless shots at you. 

    But the mentality going in to any hand should not be "how can I lose the least here" is what I'm saying. This in the long run will cause bad results especially when you're running bad because you constantly think you've been coolered on a flop/board therefore you're not maximizing value because you're thinking about getting away cheaply if your opponent hit. 

    And guess what, the higher you play the harder the spots you get put in where this becomes of increasing importance and you'll get buried.

    My first post may have looked harsh, I guess that's why you got defensive but there's simple logic to my reasoning.
  • edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: I need help this sorta thing is crippling me!:
    Okay so everytime I have an overpair to the board, Im never gonna fold, and always going to lose a buy in? Surely theres an inbetween, its not all or nothing? Imagine the stacks are 300 bbs deep, now try and be abit more constructive. And please dont use this specific hand, the thread wasnt about this hand, its just illustrating a tough spot, instead of me trying to explain! Its player specific, of course, how do you handle these spots in general, when you get that feeling, there must be a way? - Im trying to improve my game here.  As for your comment about game selection, Im rolled for NL100, Ive got a modest record there - used to lose alot when I was taking shots whilst playing reg at nl50 (usually coz I was drunk and thought I could take on the world) - But recently have been playing and had a few winning sessions there in a row.  No comments about "every dog has its day" please - we'll see if Im good enough to win there over the next few months - this thread is aimed at making sure I am! Thanx, DOHH
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Learn to hand read and put people on ranges as you go through a hand and don't worry so much when you run into the top of peoples ranges sometimes.


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