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Is there really any skill invovled in poker?

Drax1000Drax1000
edited February 2010 in Poker Chat

Is there really any skill invovled in poker ? or is it simply like of the cards

ive seen some players get killer hands in a row and clean up tables. ive been sat at a table for at least 10 mins and not even got a picture card

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Comments

  • ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited February 2010

    errmmmm..... yes there is. which is how some people make a living at it :)

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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    Long term is basically all skill.
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  • daveydaveydaveydavey
    edited February 2010
    If you play on a table where everybody is 100% even skilled and adaptible then it is down to luck of course, likewise if you are totally skilled and opponent isn't the skill will show.

    The difference between the skill of players heightens or reduces the luck factor.
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  • MadHorseMadHorse
    edited February 2010
    Unless you can predict what cards will come down then its a game of chance, 95% chance, 5% skill

    thats my theory
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2010
    Sit for another ten, and another ten, and another ten, and u willll get 2 aces eventually :)


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  • CowgomooCowgomoo
    edited February 2010
    Please lock/ban/delete etc.
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  • big_mick12big_mick12
    edited February 2010
    Nah it all luck put your money in the middle and hope for the best??? you wanna play a game??
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    Unless you can predict what cards will come down then its a game of chance, 95% chance, 5% skill thats my theory
    Posted by MadHorse
    If its 5% skill then there would be very little difference between any decent player... the difference would be in decimal points which would basically have no effect. Its like pure skill.
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  • torryboytorryboy
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    Long term is basically all skill.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    No it isnt, I reckon 70% luck.
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  • CowgomooCowgomoo
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : No it isnt, I reckon 70% luck.
    Posted by torryboy
    Well I can promise you that you are wrong.
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited February 2010
    The skill is knowing when you will and wont hit the flop!!!!
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  • MadHorseMadHorse
    edited February 2010
    If poker is skill then also Roulette must be skill also, both games where you are betting on a random outcome


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  • KidPoker3KidPoker3
    edited February 2010
    speak to any pro in the world and im sure they will put the split anywhere from 60/40 - 70/30 in favour of skill,
    get onto blackfish!!! think he loves the 'pure skill' factor,priceless blackfish,priceless!!!
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : No it isnt, I reckon 70% luck.
    Posted by torryboy
    in the long run everyone gets the same cards, the same hands etc... so what seperates the players? Its a 5 letter word that begins with S and ends in double L.
    In the short run i would probably agree that there is a 70% figure... but its not 70% luck, its 30% luck.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    speak to any pro in the world and im sure they will put the split anywhere from 60/40 - 70/30 in favour of skill, get onto blackfish!!! think he loves the 'pure skill' factor,priceless blackfish,priceless!!!
    Posted by KidPoker3
    If infinite hands are played then every possible situation will arise an infinite amount of times. So what seperates the players? 100% skill does... maximising wins with the best hand, minismising losses with the worst hand etc...
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    If poker is skill then also Roulette must be skill also, both games where you are betting on a random outcome
    Posted by MadHorse
    I haven't heard of any professional roulette players... have you?
    In poker you are not always betting on a random outcome, if you hold the nuts on the river you know you cannot lose and so want to get as many chips in the middle as possible.
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  • ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    If poker is skill then also Roulette must be skill also, both games where you are betting on a random outcome
    Posted by MadHorse
    Roulette is played against the house and poker is played against other players, mathmatically the odds will alwayas be in the houses favour. When playing roulette if your number doesn't come up you can't slam on a bet and make the Croupier believe that it did, in poker you can bluff there fore the cards landing become irrelivant and you are playing the player not the actuall outcome. Because you can win with both the best and worst hands poker involves skill, as well as the fact that you can make your bets when the odds are in your favour which can not be done on true games of chance such as roulette
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  • ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : I haven't heard of any professional roulette players... have you? In poker you are not always betting on a random outcome, if you hold the nuts on the river you know you cannot lose and so want to get as many chips in the middle as possible.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    There was a guy who spent months studying the bias of a set of roulette wheels and worked out the best area of the wheel to bet on. He made millions before the casino worked out that he and his family were using a system and then they swapped out the wheels (thus negating the calculations he had made). Can't remember his name but he was french i think
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  • scotty77scotty77
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : I haven't heard of any professional roulette players... have you? In poker you are not always betting on a random outcome, if you hold the nuts on the river you know you cannot lose and so want to get as many chips in the middle as possible.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    I've come across some in the smoking areas of casinos.

    They're very friendly people, who usually ask you for a lend of 100 to get them going as they have been so unlucky lately.
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : There was a guy who spent months studying the bias of a set of roulette wheels and worked out the best area of the wheel to bet on. He made millions before the casino worked out that he and his family were using a system and then they swapped out the wheels (thus negating the calculations he had made). Can't remember his name but he was french i think
    Posted by ACESOVER8s
    thats so cool! well technically roulette is just physics right? so i guess it could be all skill if you make the necessary calculations! You see Derren Brown did the roulette thing? 1 number out... jeeez, the guy's a legend... and ive been on stage in one of his live performances :D:D:D
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : I've come across some in the smoking areas of casinos. They're very friendly people, who usually ask you for a lend of 100 to get them going as they have been so unlucky lately.
    Posted by scotty77
    haha!!!
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  • ACESOVER8sACESOVER8s
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker? : thats so cool! well technically roulette is just physics right? so i guess it could be all skill if you make the necessary calculations! You see Derren Brown did the roulette thing? 1 number out... jeeez, the guy's a legend... and ive been on stage in one of his live performances :D:D:D
    Posted by BlackFish3
    Yeah i watched that one. I'm a big fan of his, absolute quality
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  • Drax1000Drax1000
    edited February 2010
    maybe the skill is knowing your opponent and what you can and cannot get away with
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited February 2010
    Poker is 100% luck and I'm not a lucky person.

    In tournaments with between 200 and 4000 players I've been lucky 56 times. But to temper that I've been unlucky 1748 times in only making the cash and not winning the tournament.
    There are also another 4000+ tournaments where I didn't even cash.

    I rest my case ............ I am sooooo unlucky and would do much better if skill was involved.



    (I'm off now to have my tongue removed from my cheek)
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    maybe the skill is knowing your opponent and what you can and cannot get away with
    Posted by Drax1000

    Spot on fella :)
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited February 2010
    The skill in poker is judging the luck element
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Re: Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    The skill in poker is judging the luck element
    Posted by elsadog
    You're a VERY wise dog.
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  • FlutNushFlutNush
    edited February 2010
    For clarity; I agree with absolutely everybody.

    There is skill in Poker. There is also (in no particular order): Luck, bluffing; psychology; strategy; variance; endless patience and stamina; plus unpredictability and immense swings in euphoria and depression. They call it 'Poker' though, because my definition is unwieldy and doesn't comfortably fit on book-jackets and website banners.

    It's always been a wonder to me, that the same tuition, books and strategy guides are available for everybody. In theory, if we all read them, we'd all play perfect poker. Except there is no such thing as perfect poker because the cards get in the way and everyone adopts their own style anyway. Some people play seemingly illogically... and achieve entirely logical outcomes. Sometimes, I make the right mathematical play and get the wrong financial result.

    It's a blindingly simple game with complex choices and outcomes. 

    I much prefer it to Tennis because you can play it whilst sitting down.


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  • MereNoviceMereNovice
    edited February 2010
    I haven't seen any posts from you for a while, Flutnush - you've been sorely missed.
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  • BelovedLtdBelovedLtd
    edited February 2010
    In Response to Is there really any skill invovled in poker?:
    Is there really any skill invovled in poker ? or is it simply like of the cards ive seen some players get killer hands in a row and clean up tables. ive been sat at a table for at least 10 mins and not even got a picture card
    Posted by Drax1000

    I think the answer is in the question

    "ive seen some players get killer hands in a row and clean up tables"

    "ive been sat at a table for at least 10 mins and not even got a picture card"

    Each hand may be decided mainly by luck - but it's not what you do with a single hand, or a hundred hands that decide whether you make money or not - it's what you do with tens and hundreds of thousands of hands.

    I think someone summed it up best as:

    To win a hand is 90% luck and 10% skill
    To win a tournament is 60% luck and 40% skill
    To be a winning player (ie make money) over a year is 40% luck and 60% skill
    To be a winning player over several years is 10% luck and 90% skill

    that was regarding tournaments, but I think the gist of it applies to cash poker as well.

    As others have said you don't judge the skill level of poker by 10 minutes or 10 hours, more like 10,000 hours - then you'll see the difference between the skillful players and the lucky players.
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