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General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
arthur1965 Small blind  £0.25 £0.25 £67.39
craigieboy Big blind  £0.50 £0.75 £58.51
  Your hole cards
  • K
  • K
     
DOHHHHHHH Raise  £2.00 £2.75 £160.07
spdbrkr Fold     
karen80 Fold     
arthur1965 Fold     
craigieboy Call  £1.50 £4.25 £57.01
Flop
   
  • 5
  • 9
  • 6
     
craigieboy Check     
DOHHHHHHH Bet  £3.00 £7.25 £157.07
craigieboy Raise  £10.00 £17.25 £47.01
DOHHHHHHH Call  £7.00 £24.25 £150.07
Turn
   
  • J
     
craigieboy Bet  £18.50 £42.75 £28.51
DOHHHHHHH Call  £18.50 £61.25 £131.57
River
   
  • 6
     
craigieboy All-in  £28.51 £89.76 £0.00

Comments

  • edited March 2010
    blank out players so you can post reads on them.

    this whole hand is read dependant on what is best line.

    i fold to flop raise if he's a nit for example 

    i know he's a reg so you should have reads here so no real excuse 

    help is very limited without them
  • edited March 2010

    Soooooo analysis? How did I play it?
  • edited March 2010
    Ugh, this is quite like a hand I posted a bit ago, where you said that was quite like a hand you posted too.  Id like to say I can pass this on the flop or turn, but in the heat of battle I dunno.  So looks like a flopped set though
  • edited March 2010

    Is anyone against a river call?

    He had me beat, but I was amazed at his hand. He showed 2 aces. The last hand I expected to see!!
  • edited March 2010
    by the time u get to river its a call, gotta decide before that imo, don't think i can get away but i'm a station... turn is foldable tho once u asked q on flop. lot of very playable hands beating you??
  • edited March 2010
    it is entirely read dependant as zing says....obv this is an incredibly draw heavy flop so depending how he plays his draws you might call flop/turn and fold river if you know he shuts down when he misses

    I guess if you look at his stack then his bet sizing on turn means hes put in half of it so hes always shoving river. I think turn should be all in or fold in that case, the turn for you is a blank as no draws get there and if you call this turn then you have to call river on that card
  • edited March 2010
    problem is... he could easily have hands like A9, TT-QQ... and you beat all of these.
  • edited March 2010
    personaly id be happy to get my money in with kk on this board, there are many combination of hands that he could have that you beat.

    I dont think hed raise £3 to £10 with a set so i rekon hes semi bluffin with a flush draw or protecting a hand like the hands black fish stated 

    I really dont like the call after he re raised u on the flop, i personally think you should have re raised or put him allin since he only had jus over 40 quid behind after he re raised u. 

    Plus u havto kno the player well to do this, would he play his sets strong if so u need to  think of excuses to fold and find a better spot later on in the game.
  • edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it?:
    problem is... he could easily have hands like A9, TT-QQ... and you beat all of these.
    Posted by BlackFish3
    you should be ruling out A9, QQ as A9 raising that flop is insane....QQ u cant put him on as preflop he didnt raise (altho this is villan dependant). Your either up against a draw or your beat when he raises that flop, so flatting to catch him bluffin again with his draw on the turn and then stacking off when a blank comes is my play
  • edited March 2010

    Jam the flop. If he has AA or a set then fair enough.

  • edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it?:
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it? : you should be ruling out A9, QQ as A9 raising that flop is insane....QQ u cant put him on as preflop he didnt raise (altho this is villan dependant). Your either up against a draw or your beat when he raises that flop, so flatting to catch him bluffin again with his draw on the turn and then stacking off when a blank comes is my play
    Posted by lynx3ffect
    you can't just rule out hands... they are possibilities... he had AA in this circumstance, can't rule AA out just because he don't reraise pre... doh has a very loose image... players are gona be wanting to trap him, i think that factors in here.
  • edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it?:
    Jam the flop. If he has AA or a set then fair enough.
    Posted by pryce6
    can you say why you think this is the best play please?
  • edited March 2010
    Where is your general hand analysis dohhh?

    Your play can't be assessed if you haven't told your thought process and why you did what you did.


    This is like me posting me 5betting all in preflop with A2o and asking peoples thoughts on how I played it with no info attached.

    The reaction will be this is a terrible play but they are without history. What if theres been constant 3bet/4bet bluffing preflop prior to this hand to make me think this is a profitable shove cause I can get him to fold enough times when I do it.

    Do you not see how prior hands effect decision making and that you can't just post a hand and expect accurate analysis without any info on how villains play certain situations/hands?
  • edited March 2010
    Well the guy is sat on both the tables I'm on. He's just pretty solid, haven't seen him do anything out of the ordinary.

    Its not so much about what I think of him here, than what he thinks of me. I have a big stack, and have been using it to try and bully the table. (I now Im only effectively playing the same as the 2nd largest stack, but its amazing how people respect a big stack even in cash).

    I've been raising alot, opening for 4xbb with loads of different hands, from every position. 

    The check raise on the flop - I nearly 3 bet here, putting him on 88/10.10/JJ - or maybe AKspades. I feel I can flat, with position, knowing if he is likely to continue and if the spade comes I can get off. 

    He fires again, the JJ has turned the nuts, AJ spades now is huge, and its really decision time. I have the feeling here that its all gonna go in, no matter what I do, he isnt folding the draw now, and if he's already made the set, obviously he isnt going anywhere. I dnt think it makes a difference if I shove the turn or just flat. Maybe if the river is a spade, and he does have 999/JJJ, the river goes check check as I could have a spade draw from his P.O.V, so I save a bet. 

    With my image here he could V easily have AJ spades or QQ. 

    He has AA - and he got the lot - he did it the hard way - but obv my range is so wide even from UTG - so he obv wanted to maximise his win and played it V well.

    DOHH :(


  • edited March 2010
    zing what do you do here if you have never played the guy before and he has just sat down at the table? basically how do  you play this situation with no reads?
  • edited March 2010

    you should ask scotty77 about cragieboy lol..

    anyway, his raise is more than pot size on the flop, he was in the BB so you can't rule out 78spades or off, which he would be likely to raise to protect his hand.. I think sets/overpairs would also raise there too its a draw heavy board.

    Generally if he check raises flop then bets turn hes got something big and we could probably rule a flush draw out now since the villain in this case rarely bluffs..
    Turn is the decider once you called it your commited to calling off the river too, once you build up reads though this type of thing won't be too much of a problem.

  • edited March 2010

    If you see scotty at the tables give him a nudge in this direction - should be entertaining as ever!
  • edited March 2010
    Without reads call turn fold river imo.
  • edited March 2010
    It's one of those situations where my reads/instincts are saying let it go on the turn (don't mind calling flop to see what happens) but just can't find the fold button! My initial thoughts were flopped set so I'm surprised to hear you say AA - he's played it very tricky but can't slate you as unfortunately, I'm probably playing it the same!
  • edited March 2010
    Call turn, check fold river
  • edited March 2010

    Not easy. It smells of a set, it's quite gettoffable on the Turn, but I may do the lot on the end if the guy has been getting out of line a bit earlier on.

    The geezer played it nice & cute, exactly the way he should have against aggro Dohhhhhhh.

    I much respect the Posts that Zing has made on this thread - spot on.
  • edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it?:
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it? : can you say why you think this is the best play please?
    Posted by BlackFish3
    KK doesn't come around too often so I'm not folding this flop. I don't want to put myself in a difficult position later on in the hand but I also want to play my huge overpair to the board. If he's drawing I also want to make him pay for it. It's just a situation where all the money should go in, more often than not you're going to be ahead.
  • edited March 2010
    Him flatted out the BB normally says Something like Suited Connectors / PP looking for a set or two Paints.

    The way he played it to me looks like he either had a set on the flop or a very big draw. However if he has played with you before dohhh and knows your style, he has played it well against your aggro style. 

    I was surprised he has AA their but give him credit where credit is due he played it well against you. Although you have KK and may consider that UL would you still have called him down with 1010-QQ ?
  • edited March 2010
    I agree with the others. it depends how aggro the guy is and how he plays draws.

    I would generally fold the turn.  If he's not and does this on draws i shove the turn. 

    I think the call is worst option on the turn, because if he misses draw on the riv he is unlikely to shove riv, cause he cant get u off anything with those stack sizes.  If he hits your money goes in.  So to get value from draw holdings u need to shove turn.

    How u played it you have to call the river due to odds.  Its not a great card cause hands like 67ss make it, but its better than a spade. So in conclusion fold or shove turn. I say fold turn.

    XXX
  • edited March 2010
    In Response to Re: General hand analysis plz.....how did I play it?:
    zing what do you do here if you have never played the guy before and he has just sat down at the table? basically how do  you play this situation with no reads?
    Posted by BlackFish3

    Readless I'm folding turn cause I don't expect anyone new to the table bluffing this board on turn and expect him to check hands with pair+weak draws or something like A9 pretty often so I'm crushed a lot of the time or close to 50/50 vs very big draws which aren't worth risking my stack on turn hoping this.


    With dohhh's info this is actually a pretty interesting hand. I actually think turn fold is best given action and villain being solid although it seems nitty. I tried to put together a stove of villain's hands that take this line in my view..

    Board: 9s 5s 6h Jd
    Dead:  

    equity win tie      pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 35.188%   35.19% 00.00%           449        0.00   { KhKs }
    Hand 1: 64.812%   64.81% 00.00%           827        0.00   { JcJh, JcJs, JhJs, TT, 9c9d, 9c9h, 9d9h, 6c6d, 6c6s, 6d6s, 5c5d, 5c5h, 5d5h, AsQs, AsJs, QsJs, QsTs, JsTs, 87s, 6c5c, 6d5d }


    Some are debatable and I could also include a few other AsXs and take out others but this is only as a guideline. Didn't add AA/QQ cause these should be getting 3bet oop vs a lag generally and it's unfair to include them without prior notes he's done this. 

    I don't see this turn getting bluffed very often either so your equity does not improve much if you add a couple of bluffs in there.

    I wait for a better spot.


  • edited March 2010
    some great advice... i struggle so much in these spots so was really interested in seeing the responses... so im guessing the big decision is on the turn? Readless/against a nit its a fold, against someone playing draws like this its a shove... have i summed it up right?
  • edited March 2010
    I agree with the majority of posts above.

    It all boils down to what we know about our oppo.

    Will he slowplay big pp out of position? is he aware of being out of position? how often does he defend his big blind? how does he usually play pocket pairs pre flop? does he play draws aggressively or check call?

    I admit that if your up against a player who balances his ranges very well then all this info could be hard to get, but how he usually plays his draws is the most important imo.

    The check raise on the flop is either a set or a big draw imo. i like the call on the flop, as a shove may fold out any bluffs or weak draws, and if a spade hits you can just fold and let him have it.

    On the turn is where you have to make a decision. from his bet he is going with his hand i feel, but you need to decide if he is drawing or has a made hand, because if you call and the danger cards miss, he may shut down and you dont get the lot. its a shove or fold turn, and although the oppo turned up with AA, without any info, i never put this hand in his range, along with QQ or JJ as they could be super tricky to play out of position against a LAG!
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