Tough spot in deepstack..What would you do now..

Norbit

This hand was from early on in the orfordable, I had been playing as the usual nit i am and the Villian in this hand has a good solid game.

I wont write anything on it just yet on what i thought, just take a look, and any advice on what you would do next would be great..i know my preflop and my rr prob wasnt the best but im interested to see what people would do here..

obc	Small blind		40.00	40.00	4145.00
TheDart	Big blind		80.00	120.00	7998.50
	Your hole cards	Q K
DOHHHHHHH	Fold
martoni0	Fold
Norbit	Raise		240.00	360.00	9480.00
Mr_D_Gray	Fold
SUPERNOVA	Fold
****	Raise		560.00	920.00	10350.00
elsadog	Fold
Dudeskin8	Fold
robc	Fold
TheDart	Fold
Norbit	Call		320.00	1240.00	9160.00
Flop
		3 K 3
Norbit	Check
****	Bet		800.00	2040.00	9550.00
Norbit	Raise		1995.00	4035.00	7165.00
****	Raise		3810.00	7845.00	5740.00
Norbit	???

zing

fold pre to raise

as played i stack off unless he doesnt play AhXh this way

also check raise on flop is pretty awful. i don't actually mind gay betting out if opponent is half decent cause he'll think you got 77-JJ or so and will try and push you off with AQ or something.

But never raise this flop bet please unless you think he's calling with worse.

Norbit

In Response to Re: Tough spot in deepstack..What would you do now..:

fold pre to raise as played i stack off unless he doesnt play AhXh this way also check raise on flop is pretty awful. i don't actually mind gay betting out if opponent is half decent cause he'll think you got 77-JJ or so and will try and push you off with AQ or something. But never raise this flop bet please unless you think he's calling with worse.
Posted by zing

Thanks Zing.

Im only a small timer, who just plays for a bit of fun more than anything, but winning money is always a positive thing but like hearing what you guys/girls can think of it and it will help me improve.

Yeah maybe i should of folded pre but i had a few tins and i had about 100bb and it looked pretty! lol

I can see what you mean about my post flop play, i put the rr in to see were i stood but meh i wont go into that until i post the hand..

Thanks again.

Eagle26

lol i believe im the villian in this hand?....i wont say how it turned out ;-)

Dudeskin8

I was on the table when this happened and tbh I put the guy on Aces or AKo, so in your spot it's almost impossible to commit with this hand, unless you know he can bluff here....;)

offshoot

if youre raising the flop to find out where you stood then did you not get your answer? The fact youre posting this thread shows there may be a flaw in your plan.

Norbit

In Response to Re: Tough spot in deepstack..What would you do now..:

if youre raising the flop to find out where you stood then did you not get your answer? The fact youre posting this thread shows there may be a flaw in your plan.
Posted by offshoot

But the point of this thread was to find out others would do in this spot, maybe you could of said what you would of done next, like is rr there bad? or just any advice is helpful tbh..

offshoot

well on the flop youre either way ahead or way behind. If youre behind then you dont really want to be putting more money into the pot drawing to 2 or 3 outs and if youre ahead then you dont really want him to be folding so raising the flop doesnt really achieve much. If you call then you get to see another card. You can even call the turn aswell and it wont cost you much more chips than raising the flop did and it means you get to see the river aswell. Once you call flop and turn he its gonna be a lot harder for him to bluff river so it makes it an easier decision for you.

Cowgomoo

In Response to Re: Tough spot in deepstack..What would you do now..:

well on the flop youre either way ahead or way behind. If youre behind then you dont really want to be putting more money into the pot drawing to 2 or 3 outs and if youre ahead then you dont really want him to be folding so raising the flop doesnt really achieve much. If you call then you get to see another card. You can even call the turn aswell and it wont cost you much more chips than raising the flop did and it means you get to see the river aswell. Once you call flop and turn he its gonna be a lot harder for him to bluff river so it makes it an easier decision for you.
Posted by offshoot

I think with the stacks hes prob shovin the turn regardless.

zing

offshoot is saying raising to see where your at is pointless and the quicker you understand why this is Norbit the quicker you'll improve

Norbit

In Response to Re: Tough spot in deepstack..What would you do now..:

well on the flop youre either way ahead or way behind. If youre behind then you dont really want to be putting more money into the pot drawing to 2 or 3 outs and if youre ahead then you dont really want him to be folding so raising the flop doesnt really achieve much. If you call then you get to see another card. You can even call the turn aswell and it wont cost you much more chips than raising the flop did and it means you get to see the river aswell. Once you call flop and turn he its gonna be a lot harder for him to bluff river so it makes it an easier decision for you.
Posted by offshoot

Thanks man, the advice is really helpful and il be putting it into practise when i next come across a hand like this.

The villian in this hand was Eagle, wel i say villian more like soul destroyer! lol

I folded thinking i was surely was behind and i still had about 90bb not to be going crazy with kq..

We talked about it after and he said he put me on mid pp 88-jj so well played to him.

Thanks for the advice all

robc	Small blind		40.00	40.00	4145.00
TheDart	Big blind		80.00	120.00	7998.50
	Your hole cards	Q K
DOHHHHHHH	Fold
martoni0	Fold
Norbit	Raise		240.00	360.00	9480.00
Mr_D_Gray	Fold
SUPERNOVA	Fold
Eagle26	Raise		560.00	920.00	10350.00
elsadog	Fold
Dudeskin8	Fold
robc	Fold
TheDart	Fold
Norbit	Call		320.00	1240.00	9160.00
Flop
		3 K 3
Norbit	Check
Eagle26	Bet		800.00	2040.00	9550.00
Norbit	Raise		1995.00	4035.00	7165.00
Eagle26	Raise		3810.00	7845.00	5740.00
Norbit	Fold
Eagle26	Show	J A
Eagle26	Win		7845.00		13585.00

Seagull158

In Response to Tough spot in deepstack..What would you do now..:

This hand was from early on in the orfordable, I had been playing as the usual nit i am and the Villian in this hand has a good solid game. I wont write anything on it just yet on what i thought, just take a look, and any advice on what you would do next would be great..i know my preflop and my rr prob wasnt the best but im interested to see what people would do here.. obc Small blind   40.00 40.00 4145.00 TheDart Big blind   80.00 120.00 7998.50   Your hole cards Q K       DOHHHHHHH Fold         martoni0 Fold         Norbit Raise   240.00 360.00 9480.00 Mr_D_Gray Fold         SUPERNOVA Fold         **** Raise   560.00 920.00 10350.00 elsadog Fold         Dudeskin8 Fold         robc Fold         TheDart Fold         Norbit Call   320.00 1240.00 9160.00 Flop     3 K 3       Norbit Check         **** Bet   800.00 2040.00 9550.00 Norbit Raise   1995.00 4035.00 7165.00 **** Raise   3810.00 7845.00 5740.00 Norbit ???    
Posted by Norbit

Norbit, I would have called the raise PF just like you but then I would have a pot-size bet on the turn instead of checking. If I had PP KK I might check. As played I'm laying this down. You've got over 7000 chips behind and it looks like he's got AA or AK. If I was feeling lucky I would ship it all and see if he was trying it on!

Eagle26

Like i said at the time, i have seen your game and i know your usually a tight player, your call pre-flop to my raise automatically made me decide i was gonna try and shove you off this pot. when you re-raised my c-bet i was pretty sure you was weak (mid pair i believed at the time) and u was makin this play to find out exactly where u were! so thats why i went back over the top! if you were strong here you wouldnt be re-raisin me because surely u wouldnt want me fold?..sorry for showin the bluff anyway but like i said at the time i had my reasons as i did almost exactly the same move heads up at the end of the tourney with 8 high and showed to try to get my opponent to tilt and loosen up against me- as it turned out it worked as he called my all-in a few hands later with 10 high when i had AK! ... your biggest mistake in this hand norbit was just flat callin pre-flop, a re-raise back over the top or a fold to my raise would have prevented this hand from happening! KQ does look pretty but personally im never callin a re-raise with it! as to your fold on the flop obviously as it happens it was a bad fold but the majority of the time you are makin the correct lay down here! thing is you played KQ out of position got the flop you wanted and still folded anyway! obviously your a clever enough bloke to realise now what you did wrong in this hand! gl at the tables anyway mate, im sure our paths will cross again at some point and there is every chance next time i will be on the wrong end of a hand against u! - Andy

TP_Dantb

Although eagle showed up with air on this occasion, the way he played the hand, the majority of the time he will hold ak aa kk or ax of hearts.

If im in your spot i would fol pre flop as i dont really need to get involved at this stage and can find a much better spot later on.

I agree with zing and offshoot that raising the flop is not the best move, and i think you made the right laydown from what eagle was telling you.

Norbit

Thanks all, really helpful and nice post Eagle, nice to know what you was thinking through that hand.

I know im a fairly tight player, but advice on hands like this is really helpful for me to improve on..

..I see now why raising Eagle's flop bet was bad as most times hes folding if hes beat and rr if he's got me beat, and i agree i should of folded pre, being out of position to a good player like Eagle.

Like the old saying 'learn from your mistakes' n all that.

Once again, thanks all