Getting rid of fish

The_Don90

Is there any possible way to get rid of the fish/chasers.


On a tournament earlier on i raised pre-flop with 5,5 so wasnt a massive raise although it was the first hand id played and we where on the third lot of blinds (excluding blinds which i got in unraised).

Flop came 5,6,8 so i hit trips but was aware of a flush draw and a possible straight. SB raises and one caller so i re-raised three quaters of my stack to ask the question knowing i still have a pairing board out, SB folded and the caller called. next card was a 9 and the K,7 offsuit hit its straight.

This was only a £2 buy in so was expecting reasonable but not brilliant play, but is there any way to get these fish off chasing that four card flush.

MereNovice

In Response to Getting rid of fish:

Is there any possible way to get rid of the fish/chasers. On a tournament earlier on i raised pre-flop with 5,5 so wasnt a massive raise although it was the first hand id played and we where on the third lot of blinds (excluding blinds which i got in unraised). Flop came 5,6,8 so i hit trips but was aware of a flush draw and a possible straight. SB raises and one caller so i re-raised three quaters of my stack to ask the question knowing i still have a pairing board out, SB folded and the caller called. next card was a 9 and the K,7 offsuit hit its straight. This was only a £2 buy in so was expecting reasonable but not brilliant play, but is there any way to get these fish off chasing that four card flush.
Posted by The_Don90

Why would we want to get rid of fish?

I wouldn't call re-raising three quarters of your stack "asking a question", I'd say that you're making a very firm statement there (i.e. I'm not passing).

DOHHHHHHH

If you want to get them off the draw then I guess go all in on the flop - wudnt make a difference though as 3/4 of ur stack and ur whole stack r pretty much the same thing.

You have done as much as you possibly could to 'get rid' of this fish - stayed patient, found a hand, and got it in good. - The dealer wanted him to stick around though.

Dealer always has the final decision

BlackFish3

When people are drawing, i want them to call my bets... so i aim to bet the maximum that i think they will call but that also denies them pot odds to call the bet. So it's finding the balance between the 2... if you think he will call your all in with a straight draw then move all in with your set as you are a big favourite to win the hand.

ChirpyChip

Lol get rid of fish.... most hilarious thing I've ever heard............ I say please bring more, as many as possible, lol..... so you wan't to play rocks and nits playing just AK.. how would we ever win or get paid etc. Lol fish

Tikay10

The guy was holding a 7 on a Flop of 5-6-8, & chose to try & hit his open-ended draw. He was also, if I read your Post correctly, chasing a flush draw, too. So he was on a flush draw AND a straight draw. So, whats that, 15 outs twice?

Does that really make him a "fish"?*

* I confess, I hate the modern practice of so deriding those who are less fortunate than us, or not as good as us - in our opinion - at poker. And in this case, with TWO huge draws, I think I'd be slightly more respectful of him, and his play.

Just because we lose a hand, does not mean, with all due respect, that Villain is a "fish" or a "donk". 

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

When people are drawing, i want them to call my bets... so i aim to bet the maximum that i think they will call but that also denies them pot odds to call the bet. So it's finding the balance between the 2... if you think he will call your all in with a straight draw then move all in with your set as you are a big favourite to win the hand.
Posted by BlackFish3

If I read the OP correctly, Villain was on a straight draw AND a flush draw.

Anyone folding there, if that's the case?

The_Don90

Tikay just to confirm he had an up and down straight draw, there was a potential flush but the opponent on this occassion did not have that. He just had the up and down draw.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

Tikay just to confirm he had an up and down straight draw, there was a potential flush but the opponent on this occassion did not have that. He just had the up and down draw.
Posted by The_Don90

So he had 8 outs twice, (minus paired boards, & he was not to know you had setted), so he thought he was a 2/1 shot. May not be optimal play, but not that terrible, imo? All of us have chased these draws on occasion. And on a board that read 5-6-7-8 by the Turn, how much do you like your set now, if betting resistance is met?

But the play is neither here nor there. It just strikes a raw nerve with me to be so derisory of those not quite so good as us at poker. 

dylan12

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish : So he had 8 outs twice, (minus paired boards, & he was not to know you had setted), so he thought he was a 2/1 shot. May not be optimal play, but not that terrible, imo? All of us have chased these draws on occasion. And on a board that read 5-6-7-8 by the Turn, how much do you like your set now, if betting resistance is met? But the play is neither here nor there. It just strikes a raw nerve with me to be so derisory of those not quite so good as us at poker.  
Posted by Tikay10

I need to change my notes on you mate - I always put you down as a fish he he!!

Tikay is right though, at the end of the day everyone pays their money to enter and can play any way they like, there are different levels of players and at this particular level there will be a lot of players learning their trade, good luck to them i say!!

unknown_username

This sounds more like a bigger fish  than  you think possibly ?? 
I have every admiration for players who  are prepared to speculate with  such  hands  as K 7, it shows  that they are,  maybe in to  play  poker on the 'streets' !! ..

And  I dont want  to  appear rude  to  you  BUT,  was  your  play  so good ....?

Ok it was only  a 2 pound tournament  but  we  play poker  first, to  enjoy  a game of  cards, while any profit is  a bonus !!  
I  enjoy  playing with  all-sorts,  liquorice yes , gobby yes , learners and  experts, that's what  makes it  such  a good  game it's all about  opinions and  questions..

But show  a little  'grace' to  players at the tables.. it could be your...
  "Ace  in the Hole" one day ... 

The_Don90

I think what my origional statement has been taken wrong, i never meant to fully crisise the player, as youve said tikay i understand he had 8 outs, and bar a pairing board thats a fair amount when theres only 52 cards in a deck.

However what this origional post was meant was how could i have played it better, to remove the chasers from the board.

BlackFish3

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

I think what my origional statement has been taken wrong, i never meant to fully crisise the player, as youve said tikay i understand he had 8 outs, and bar a pairing board thats a fair amount when theres only 52 cards in a deck. However what this origional post was meant was how could i have played it better, to remove the chasers from the board.
Posted by The_Don90

but don't you want them to call and miss? you will get far more value that way than trying to get them to fold all the time.

JockBMW

Any Player can Call, Raise or fold, with any two cards, from any position.....  And they usually do, especially when I'm bluffing with 7 2 off suit lol 

dav1964

I have made this kind of call on many occasions,some successful and some not.Ihave also been called with this kind of board in tournys by more experienced players than myself.It just hurts a bit when they hit.dav

Ads2kuk

Thought I'd throw my 2 cents in..

I'd be looking to stick it all in on the flop...could possible make the original caller think you raise Pre with suited connectors and flopped it or even show you have hit big with your set....then again to be honest It's possible to get away when flopping that set there...

(I say this knowing I couldn't fold my flopped set of Js against a 910 who flopped a straight! BUT THATS DIFFERENT!! )

Action_Dan

I think you're asking how to get opponents to lay down draws? Most players (especially at lower stakes) like to chase their draws so the only thing you can do is bet your hands strong, charging them to outdraw you and in the long term, you'll succeed - unfortunately sometimes they'll hit but more often than not, they won't so we actually want them to be calling away! As people have eluded to, it's about giving them the wrong price so calling becomes a negative play - I'll happily have people drawing against me because I'm going to take all their chips when they don't hit and I'll just treat the times they do as a "tax" on the winnings I'll earn in the long term!

In this specific scenario, the only thing I'd have done differently was bet all your stack on the flop not 75% - it gives opponent an even worse price to chase and they would probably call that anyway so you're earning more when they don't hit...not to mention, it takes difficult decision away on the turn if straightening card comes down so move in, when you think you're ahead and in the long term, you won't go far wrong!

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

I think what my origional statement has been taken wrong, i never meant to fully crisise the player, as youve said tikay i understand he had 8 outs, and bar a pairing board thats a fair amount when theres only 52 cards in a deck. However what this origional post was meant was how could i have played it better, to remove the chasers from the board.
Posted by The_Don90

Sorry to be  pedant, but that's not quite right - he had (barring a paired board) 8 out TWICE. That's a BIG difference!

Should you have played it different, to get rid of him? Detail apart, no not really. Do you really WANT to get rid of him. Two times out of three he's gonna miss........

I don't really see the problem here. Both of you played it OK, yopu both flopped hard, & he got there. It's standard stuff.
 
Because you lost does not mean you did a thing wrong, & vice-versa. It's a standard coup, just move on to the next hand.

I'm sorry if I took your original statement wrong, but you did refer to the Villain as a "fish" twice.

Tikay10

I just ran that hand through an odds calculator, & you are about 75% to win on that flop & Villain 25%.

So play that hand 1,000 times, & you'll win it 750 times.

Do you REALLy want him to fold?

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish : Sorry to be  pedant, but that's not quite right - he had (barring a paired board) 8 out TWICE. That's a BIG difference! Should you have played it different, to get rid of him? Detail apart, no not really. Do you really WANT to get rid of him. Two times out of three he's gonna miss........ I don't really see the problem here. Both of you played it OK, yopu both flopped hard, & he got there. It's standard stuff.   Because you lost does not mean you did a thing wrong, & vice-versa. It's a standard coup, just move on to the next hand. I'm sorry if I took your original statement wrong, but you did refer to the Villain as a "fish" twice.
Posted by Tikay10

Sorry Tikay, as i have said in the past when heated and tired i often say things incorrectly without thinking, i will try and calm down in the first place before requesting assistance on my game again.

On a positive i think since i had a small break from online poker and only playing live for a small while it has improved a vast amount, im now winning more, and cashing in others than what i used to, however theres always room for improvement.


Thanks for giving me these odds Tikay glad to know i was that far ahead when i was betting, shows im going in the right direction, and i guess my opponent was just a looser player than me. It will happen, but as yourself and a number of people have said 75% of the time i want him to call, its just knowing when that 75% is i guess but thats lady luck.

Tikay10

Nice one Don, & keep up that good run.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

Nice one Don, & keep up that good run.
Posted by Tikay10

Thanks Tikay, currently sitting joint-top of my local Poker League aswell so hoping to stay there to get a trophy just to say i done it. Also going to start going to a casino on a weekly basis(well once financially i can support it).

But thanks for all the support guys, just want to keep on improving and maybe play with some really good players one day (not that i dont know but to play with some names that people may know) not because i want the money but i like the enjoyment of the game.

loonytoons

I often fish with the up and down straight draws, not always just sometimes, depends on my mood at the time, really scientific eh?

MereNovice

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

I often fish with the up and down straight draws, not always just sometimes, depends on my mood at the time, really scientific eh?
Posted by loonytoons

Do you have any "tells" so that we know what mood you are in?

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish : Do you have any "tells" so that we know what mood you are in?
Posted by MereNovice

No, but a lady friend of mine does.

loonytoons

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish : Do you have any "tells" so that we know what mood you are in?
Posted by MereNovice

Yes i press the all in button

-TARAS-

In Response to Re: Getting rid of fish:

I think you're asking how to get opponents to lay down draws? Most players (especially at lower stakes) like to chase their draws so the only thing you can do is bet your hands strong, charging them to outdraw you and in the long term, you'll succeed - unfortunately sometimes they'll hit but more often than not, they won't so we actually want them to be calling away! As people have eluded to, it's about giving them the wrong price so calling becomes a negative play - I'll happily have people drawing against me because I'm going to take all their chips when they don't hit and I'll just treat the times they do as a "tax" on the winnings I'll earn in the long term! In this specific scenario, the only thing I'd have done differently was bet all your stack on the flop not 75% - it gives opponent an even worse price to chase and they would probably call that anyway so you're earning more when they don't hit...not to mention, it takes difficult decision away on the turn if straightening card comes down so move in, when you think you're ahead and in the long term, you won't go far wrong!
Posted by Action_Dan

   Totally agree 100pc, i shouldn'd really let in on the lowdown from the fish community for whom i have recently been elected as chairman but it is part of our mantra to call, call and call again.As far as we're concerned as the pot slowly grows so do the pot odds,if you think your'e trapping with a made hand,we'll sniff out a draw and follow it till we get you ! You have been warned