poker etiquette and chip dumping

porter1989

I've just been playing a £100 guaranteed tournament. I made the final table as chip leader, and came into the last 3 in 2nd, although one player was away. As this player got blinded out, the big stack - XXX decided that rather than make up his small blind (which was more than the big blinds stack) he would fold every hand, and then proceed to 4 raise every hand when im in the big blind. I think something needs to be done about this because for as long as players think its ok to play like this its an absolute joke! On pokerstars as soon as you get shorter than the blind and are away you're automatically knocked out!



EDIT - SKY RICH - please do not name players in your posts. if you would like to report a player, please use the appropriate channels and contact customer

ACESOVER8s

In Response to poker etiquette and chip dumping:

I've just been playing a £100 guaranteed tournament. I made the final table as chip leader, and came into the last 3 in 2nd, although one player was away. As this player got blinded out, the big stack - 'sooty17' decided that rather than make up his small blind (which was more than the big blinds stack) he would fold every hand, and then proceed to 4 raise every hand when im in the big blind. I think something needs to be done about this because for as long as players think its ok to play like this its an absolute joke! On pokerstars as soon as you get shorter than the blind and are away you're automatically knocked out!
Posted by porter1989

I Don't think you are automatically knocked out on stars. Does it not just automatically call if the small blind is bigger than the remaining chips of the big blind rather than make you call and get the excess returned?

DAVEYZZ

In Response to poker etiquette and chip dumping:

I've just been playing a £100 guaranteed tournament. I made the final table as chip leader, and came into the last 3 in 2nd, although one player was away. As this player got blinded out, the big stack - 'sooty17' decided that rather than make up his small blind (which was more than the big blinds stack) he would fold every hand, and then proceed to 4 raise every hand when im in the big blind. I think something needs to be done about this because for as long as players think its ok to play like this its an absolute joke! On pokerstars as soon as you get shorter than the blind and are away you're automatically knocked out!
Posted by porter1989

why didnt YOU raise the away players blind? and sooty's for that matter???

-Dino66-

If you folded to his 4X raise every time it was perfect tactics to keep the absent player in.

porter1989

sorry thats what i meant about stars, it does automatically call. having said that, lets not get away from the point this dumping of chips happened over about 15 hands it was no 2 or 3 hand coincidence!

porter1989

if you cant do it in a casino, why should you be allowed to do it on here!

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

if you cant do it in a casino, why should you be allowed to do it on here!
Posted by porter1989

surely you do not HAVE to complete your sb into a bb even in a casino,

the fact is this guy was using tactics and you let him him (bully you)/get away with it.
if its me i would be all-in every hand that oi am 1st to act in and see how he likes a taste of his own medicine

MereNovice

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

sorry thats what i meant about stars, it does automatically call. having said that, lets not get away from the point this dumping of chips happened over about 15 hands it was no 2 or 3 hand coincidence!
Posted by porter1989

If I understand your OP correctly, he wasn't "chip dumping" he was just choosing not to steal the blind from the away player.
As has already been pointed out, this seems like good tactics if he felt that he could severely reduce your chip stack while you were trying to hold on to place higher than the away player.

I had this happen to me on the bubble of a satellite once and I played it so badly that I ended up missing out on a seat.

porter1989

why would i risk my whole stack when this other guy should have been blinded out? why should he have a free ride to another 15 quid more than me on the back of this other bloke at my expense? i just thought it would be worth highlighting the fact that something needs to be done about this!

porter1989

what happened mate was the big blind has less chips than the small blind - so he would of had the chips he played to make up back plus however many more he had than the short stack already from his small blind. that isnt tactical its just stupid because hes already commited those chips and then given them away

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping : surely you do not HAVE to complete your sb into a bb even in a casino, the fact is this guy was using tactics and you let him him (bully you)/get away with it. if its me i would be all-in every hand that oi am 1st to act in and see how he likes a taste of his own medicine
Posted by DAVEYZZ

In a casino as on stars you would not make up your Small blind, you would already have enough money in for the call and then the hand would automatically play. so lets say blinds are 1000 - 2000 but the player in the big only has 999. You would already have that covered by the 1k small blind so the call is automatic. I beleive what the OP is annoyed by is that even this was the case SKY makes you call the 2k and have 1001 returned. This means that even though you have more chips in than the BB you can fold and pass your SB to that player - As there would be no additional risk in calling all that is happening in this case is the SB is passing chips to the BB. (or thats how i read the OP anyway)

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

why would i risk my whole stack when this other guy should have been blinded out? why should he have a free ride to another 15 quid more than me on the back of this other bloke at my expense? i just thought it would be worth highlighting the fact that something needs to be done about this!
Posted by porter1989

nothing can be done about this because no wrong was done...
you were happy to be bullied so you could ladder up and get another £15 i would not of been happy with that i would want to win the tourny for the extra £25 or so?

what was the final outcome did you get 2nd place?

porter1989

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping : In a casino as on stars you would not make up your big blind, you would already have enough money in for the call and then the hand would automatically play. so lets say blinds are 1000 - 2000 but the player in the big only has 999. You would already have that covered by the 1k small blind so the call is automatic. I beleive what the OP is annoyed by is that even this was the case SKY makes you call the 2k and have 1001 returned. This means that even though you have more chips in than the BB you can fold and pass your SB to that player - As there would be no additional risk in calling all that is happening in this case is the SB is passing chips to the BB. (or thats how i read the OP anyway)
Posted by ACESOVER8s

that exactly it, i cant see why you would ever want to play it like that when there is no risk attached? the small blind is losing more by not playing the hand. wheres the logic?

beaneh

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

why would i risk my whole stack when this other guy should have been blinded out? why should he have a free ride to another 15 quid more than me on the back of this other bloke at my expense? i just thought it would be worth highlighting the fact that something needs to be done about this!
Posted by porter1989

Sounds like he used the prize jump from 2nd to 3rd to pressurise you quite well!

Having said that I don't really understand what you mean about the blind and how much he had.

ACESOVER8s

I'm supprised by the responses to this, i think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a player with more money invested than the BB to see the cards play out, they can't lose anything. If this was 2 players who were known to each other playing against the OP then there would be collusion posts and consipiracy theories all over this thread.

Tikay10

Nobody, nowhere, is EVER forced to "make up" the SB, be they absent or not. That would be against all universal rules of poker.

The Big Stack played this absolutely optimally, & he did nothing wrong. He wants YOU out, then his Heads-Up duel is easier! It's basic poker strategy, & any player, 3 handed & in this situation, would do this.

When an odd situation arises - such as "last 3, but one is disco'd", it's up to the other two players to re-assess how they handle this, & find the optimal strategy. That is exactly what the Big Stack did.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping : Sounds like he used the prize jump from 2nd to 3rd to pressurise you quite well! Having said that I don't really understand what you mean about the blind and how much he had.
Posted by beaneh

I used the modern forum expression "/end thread" in a similar situation yesterday, & a Gentleman told me off saying I had "no right to end threads".......

But Beaneh sums it up perfectly, & "kills" the debate.

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping : Sounds like he used the prize jump from 2nd to 3rd to pressurise you quite well! Having said that I don't really understand what you mean about the blind and how much he had.
Posted by beaneh

as per my other post this is what OP means by the blind situation

lets say blinds are 1000 - 2000 but the player in the big only has 999. The Small Blind would already have that covered by the 1k small blind so the call on most sites would be automatic.SKY however operates differently and makes you call the 2k and have 1001 returned. As the system won't register the bet as called unless you call 2k (not the 999 bet) then you can fold here and pass 1k to the BB even though he only had 999 left. This in my opinion is an error on the sky site and if the Small Blind forced bet covers the remaining chips of the BB then the call should be automatic by the system as the amount bet by the BB has already been matched by the small blind

porter1989

thats exactly it acesover8s, not only that, but at one point, blinds were at 500, 1000, bb has 60 chips and he folds his 500. Can people still not see why im annoyed?

dylan12

Easy answer to this - if he has only 60 left in the BB ans the SB keeps folding - just shove your chips from the button - simple!!

zxghostxz

i dont see wat the problem is...its a good tactic to keep the small stack in so you can bully the other one...ive don it . the problem is you showed weakness and he jumped all over you.nex time make a stand . at least go down  fighting..gl in the future ....

ACESOVER8s

So it's a good to fold 500 chips to the big blind when calling would actually cost 440 LESS than folding? don't get me wrong i'm not saying it didn't work on this occasion but this seems wrong to me. If other sites class the call as having been made by the small blind if that amount is more than the remainder of the big blinds chips then why is it different on here?

unknown_username

you cudda all sat out till the guy came back unless he were away from early in the tourny i dont know.i remember being i a tourny three of us left and one disconed and i didnt know what to do, i stole a couple of blinds before realising the other guy was folding to his bb but was playing me and a railer said its a shame he disconed then it hit me so we sat out till he reconed,i felt abit foolish but was put at ease by the railer as it wasnt a situation i,d bin in before.well i was HU in a tourny last week my oppo disconed i sat out imediatlely till he got back i learnt my lesson.this is just my story the OPS different i think

zxghostxz

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

So it's a good to fold 500 chips to the big blind when calling would actually cost 440 LESS than folding? don't get me wrong i'm not saying it didn't work on this occasion but this seems wrong to me. If other sites class the call as having been made by the small blind if that amount is more than the remainder of the big blinds chips then why is it different on here?
Posted by ACESOVER8s

yes i see wat u are sayin but in my view the 500 chips dont matter theres  3 left in ..a mtt   theres prob over 50000 in play  the point of doin it would be to weaken your opponient as much as possible befor your heads up with them and possibly to put them on tilt  lol .. i no it sounds hard and.. unfair but thats the way to play poker in my view....do there still sing the song ... get into them  f  k  them off  at the footie matches   lololololol   that the way to play poker .......well in some situations anyway    lol   gl

BelovedLtd

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

why would i risk my whole stack when this other guy should have been blinded out? why should he have a free ride to another 15 quid more than me on the back of this other bloke at my expense? ...
Posted by porter1989

This perfectly sums up why the other player was playing as he did.

You weren't going to risk your whole stack when you the other guy 'should' have been blinded out - so it's no wonder that the other player just kept him in to keep the pressure on you.

It's right that it sounds like a procedural problem with Sky, but you could see how it worked in one hand so after that you really should have adapted your game to take into account how he was playing.

And the thread was completely out of order - it's possibly a functional problem, it's completely wrong to suggest he was in any way wrong to do what he did; you calling him a cheater just for playing strategically is a breach of etiquette 

DAVEYZZ

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

Easy answer to this - if he has only 60 left in the BB ans the SB keeps folding - just shove your chips from the button - simple!!
Posted by dylan12

my point exactly,shove your chips the villan folds you knock out short stack easy innit?

if villan calls you still get 2nd if shorty loses

GREGHOGG

i don't understand....

theres no rule against folding... or some of us nits out there would be in serious trouble

maybe ive missed the point, but frankly i don't care

he can do what he likes, he has chips and is using the situation to his advantage.. good play imo

MereNovice

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

i don't understand.... theres no rule against folding... or some of us nits out there would be in serious trouble maybe ive missed the point, but frankly i don't care he can do what he likes, he has chips and is using the situation to his advantage.. good play imo
Posted by GREGHOGG

We've missed you Gregory.  ;-)

AIRWALKER

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

you cudda all sat out till the guy came back unless he were away from early in the tourny i dont know.i remember being i a tourny three of us left and one disconed and i didnt know what to do, i stole a couple of blinds before realising the other guy was folding to his bb but was playing me and a railer said its a shame he disconed then it hit me so we sat out till he reconed,i felt abit foolish but was put at ease by the railer as it wasnt a situation i,d bin in before.well i was HU in a tourny last week my oppo disconed i sat out imediatlely till he got back i learnt my lesson.this is just my story the OPS different i think
Posted by stokefc

You are a true sportsman and gent Sir Stoke of Fc. Not many would do that. If the other person did it i would but i probably wouldn't sit out first and would steal away happily. I get cut off all the time and been shown no mercy so thought that was the norm.

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

i don't understand.... theres no rule against folding... or some of us nits out there would be in serious trouble maybe ive missed the point, but frankly i don't care he can do what he likes, he has chips and is using the situation to his advantage.. good play imo
Posted by GREGHOGG

This is more a question of the fact that the softwarre is different here to other places. the call is already made by having more chips in than required to "Call" the big blind. It should class the call as made but Sky's software will not run the flop unless you actually make up the SB. This doesn't happen in someother places and in this case the guy folding his small was passing chips to the BB to keep him in. I beleive this would be classed as Soft playing that player on purpose. I was under the impresion that skys software and fraud teams would automatically pick up on a player intetionally passing chips and soft playing 1 particular player? I was also under the impression that to intentionally pass chips to a player (not lose to them, pass chips to them) in order to keep them in the game was against the sites rules????

I remember DOhhhhh asking a question about passing chips to a friend and he was told in no uncertain terms that intentionally passing chips and soft playing 1 player was against the rules. I don't understand how that doesn't apply?

philmenow

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping:

In Response to Re: poker etiquette and chip dumping : This is more a question of the fact that the softwarre is different here to other places. the call is already made by having more chips in than required to "Call" the big blind. It should class the call as made but Sky's software will not run the flop unless you actually make up the SB. This doesn't happen in someother places and in this case the guy folding his small was passing chips to the BB to keep him in. I beleive this would be classed as Soft playing that player on purpose. I was under the impresion that skys software and fraud teams would automatically pick up on a player intetionally passing chips and soft playing 1 particular player? I was also under the impression that to intentionally pass chips to a player (not lose to them, pass chips to them) in order to keep them in the game was against the sites rules???? I remember DOhhhhh asking a question about passing chips to a friend and he was told in no uncertain terms that intentionally passing chips and soft playing 1 player was against the rules. I don't understand how that doesn't apply?
Posted by ACESOVER8s

because they choose when its right or wrong.