You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
AK 1st hand after someone raises preflop before you
Here's an interesting situation my friend recently found himself in. 9 handed sit and go, top 3 payout, he was dealt 1st hand AK off suit in early position. A player before him raised 4x BB. What to do now?
Three options, fold, call or raise. Let me know what you would do in this situation and why.
He decided to reraise the original raise in an effort to isolate the preflop raiser considering many people call bets with drawing hands early on. This in fact put about a third of his stack in the pot. All of the other players folded but the original raiser shoved all in. My friend felt that he was pot committed and therefore had to call. The original raiser showed pocket 9s and the AK failed to improve and was knocked out of the tournament 1st hand. That is what actually happened.
I argue that the best option is to flat call. I do not think you can fold one of the best starting hands to a standard raise (4x BB) because it was a low limit game and therefore the standard is low enough that players could have quite a wide range of hands when they raise in early position. If you reraise you find yourself pot commited if they go all in, accepting the coin flip but being only a 45% favourite to win. Therefore 55 out of 100 times you have been knocked out of the tournament and must cash in nearly all of the remaining 45 times to make a profit. If they flat call your reraise then you do have position but have achieved the same in my oppinion as flat calling and hoping to hit on the flop but at a much higher price. I believe that the original raiser's raise is enough to scare off many drawing hands and therefore by flat calling you can see a flop and try and hit without it costing too much and without being committed if you miss. If other players do decide to join the pot because of implied odds etc then you can put out a pot size bet on the flop if you hit to find out where you are and if you get any callers then you can play very passively in order to reach a cheap showdown in case they have hit big. If they reraise your pot size bet then top pair is unlikely to be the best hand and you can easily fold. If you miss again an easy cheap fold.
Three options, fold, call or raise. Let me know what you would do in this situation and why.
He decided to reraise the original raise in an effort to isolate the preflop raiser considering many people call bets with drawing hands early on. This in fact put about a third of his stack in the pot. All of the other players folded but the original raiser shoved all in. My friend felt that he was pot committed and therefore had to call. The original raiser showed pocket 9s and the AK failed to improve and was knocked out of the tournament 1st hand. That is what actually happened.
I argue that the best option is to flat call. I do not think you can fold one of the best starting hands to a standard raise (4x BB) because it was a low limit game and therefore the standard is low enough that players could have quite a wide range of hands when they raise in early position. If you reraise you find yourself pot commited if they go all in, accepting the coin flip but being only a 45% favourite to win. Therefore 55 out of 100 times you have been knocked out of the tournament and must cash in nearly all of the remaining 45 times to make a profit. If they flat call your reraise then you do have position but have achieved the same in my oppinion as flat calling and hoping to hit on the flop but at a much higher price. I believe that the original raiser's raise is enough to scare off many drawing hands and therefore by flat calling you can see a flop and try and hit without it costing too much and without being committed if you miss. If other players do decide to join the pot because of implied odds etc then you can put out a pot size bet on the flop if you hit to find out where you are and if you get any callers then you can play very passively in order to reach a cheap showdown in case they have hit big. If they reraise your pot size bet then top pair is unlikely to be the best hand and you can easily fold. If you miss again an easy cheap fold.
Comments
$2 Sit and go - 9 handed.
1st hand:
Fold, Fold, Raise 4x BB, Now its me with AK. For me here calling is not an option as it will just encourage hands like J10 suited and Q10 also small pairs to come along and with this being a low limit Sng I didnt want to be multi way with AK out of position to a number of possible callers. So to me, I had the choice of folding or raising. I chose raise and made it 10x the BB. I did this to isolate the raiser. If he folds im good, if he flat calls I have position on him. The play folded back round to him and he thought for a while before shoving all in. Now I realised he probably wasn't doing this with AQ or A x Id put almost a third of my stack in already so I reluctantly called hoping I was racing and not up against KK or AA. He turned over 99 and they held up.
Maybe I was wrong for re raising?
Anyones thoughts?
Thanks for your post though.
I Pass, & I've Voted that way.
It's player dependent, & situation dependent.
1) If you hit your A or K, could you still get off the hand to a further Bet? You could hit & still be behind.
2) A Double-Up early has very limited value. A Double-Up later is far more useful.
3) Can I find a better spot for all my chips? Yes, I can!
4) Why not let the fast starters knock a few of each other out before playing any big pots? Lazy, but smart, that. Fast Starters almost NEVER Cash.
5) I play for pleasure, & If I pay £5, £50 or £500, (it matters not which), I'm gonna be pretty sick if I bust first hand with AK, & I'm gonna look pretty silly. too.
6) I like to be the aggrressor, to control my Pots, make my own decision when to play & how to play. 9-9 man is dictating the play here. Let him, I'll have him later - on my terms.
Later in the Tourney, this hand plays TOTALLY different, & I deffo Jam to his Raise.
To be fair, I play Small-Pot Poker, so most would not take my line. But on balance, & for me, nah, take it 9-9 man, I'll find a better spot later.
Scenario:
Middway through torny both stacks nearly equal.
I'm in mid position with villian raising in early pos with about 3xbb
I raise 5xbb everyone else folds.
Villain calls
Flop comes and I've missed the flop.
Villain bets 3xbb again.
Do you chase the turn & river cards or fold?
It depends on stack sizes, his and your table image and about a million other things but whatever you do DONT call hoping to hit - raise or fold.
Don't forget, if ypou play AK correctly, (preferably later in the Tourney), it's a 75/25 shot against any Pair, QQ down. It is NOT 50/50 - unless you just Call.
Gary
Im not going to say your play was wrong as you did it for certain reasons.
My problem with your comment is that you RELUCTANTLY CALLED HOPING I WAS RACING OR NOT UP AGAINST ACES OR KINGS.
Playing like this is wrong, why put your comp on the line in this way, on the first hand.
As it was you were racing and you could have picked a BETTER SPOT.
col
A good rule would be to find out more information about your players before you start reading them.
Too many people go bonkers with AK early on, so try to visualise it as just a drawing hand that will be SUPER if it connects but is effectively 27o if you miss (forgive my SLIGHT simplification)
MB
Let's nail this AK v Underpair = 50/50 thing.
Yes, AK is (about) 50/50 if you CALL.
What if you Re-Raise with it, though? Re-Raise BIG?
How often does your Oppo Call a big Raise from you? If he Raises, & you Re-Pop it BIG, he needs a BIG hand to Call. He won't (or should not) be Calling a big Raise with marginals). He will Call with, say, TT up, or maybe AQ.
So, how many times can you "get him off" with that big Raise?
Half the time?
Well if you get the Oppo to fold half of the time, & the other half of the time, they Call, then the odds of your AK winning - over time - have increased from 50/50 to 75/25. And that's a mathematical fact. Because you "got him off" Pre-flop 50% of the time.
It's also worth remembering, that by Raising big with AK, you often don't get to see the Flop. And if you don't see a Flop, I've noticed that, generally, you cannot lose.......;)
Please note, this method of playing AK refers to the Mid-stages of Tourneys. You should NOT follow this advice with AK in the first 4 or 5 Levels. It won't work.
Perhaps you would, to use Rory Breaker's words, care to enlighten us.........
Dave
It's a $2 sit an go not the WSOP !!
It's been raised up first hand 4 times the BB in early position,
Ok if it's a Major tournament it's an easy pass but in this scenario you can call to speculate a little but the point to remember is... it's ony an Ace high hand, AK is so overrated pre flop early in a game
Once a flop comes with any hand you don't really know where you are, until some more betting takes place, this game has a hidden framework, it cant be analysed by people or odds and percentages it's called
"Gambling"
It also contains "Emotion" and from behind a computer screen you don't know what is going through other players minds
Poker is an easy game to play if you understand there will be bad-beats, it's when players try to make things complicated for themselves that they start to doubt their own ability's
glk benny