question

Mohican

Mohican	Small blind		100.00	100.00	6765.00
player	Big blind		200.00	300.00	8955.00
	Your hole cards	Q Q
shortstack	Call		200.00	500.00	2055.00
player	Call		200.00	700.00	5825.00
villian	Raise		600.00	1300.00	17190.00
player	Fold
Mohican	All-in		6765.00	8065.00	0.00
player	Fold
shortstack	All-in		2055.00	10120.00	0.00
player	Fold
villian	Call		6265.00	16385.00	10925.00
Mohican	Show	Q Q
shortstack	Show	K J
villian	Show	Q A
Flop
		A 7 5
Turn
		7
River
		6
villian	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 7s	16385.00		27310.00

Mohican

My question is this- if i stop playing so many of these low stake mtt's(£2.20) and use the buy in's to play a bigger buy in tournament, will it stop this sort of thing happening? I knew the short stack would call any raise so I shoved to isolate(would've been happy to take down the 1200 already in the pot) but the villian callled. Go to love the call but along came the Ace. When questioned villian said it was good odds(it wasn't) and the their stack was so big it didn't matter. So move up stakes or stay where i am and keep getting the bad calls???
p.s. I fully understand you want these sort of calls but it doesn't make it any easier trying to make a profit.

DOHHHHHHH

No mate, they happen at all levels in my experience.........

In fact in the Vegas semi final the other day, which was £110 entry I believe? and top prize worth, £1.1k? (a ticket to the final...)

I saw a hand where a guy limped in with 7 9 off. There was a 5xbb raise behind and the guy called. The flop came 2 4 5 rainbow. So the 79 off had nothing, no pair, no draw.

He checked, and the aggressor pre flop, went all in. The guy with the 79 CALLED and saw his oppo with K J off. So obviously the KJ was trying to clean the pot up there and then, but imagine how he felt when he saw he was in front. Obviously the turn came a 7, and the guy who made the weirdest and probably the worst play I've ever seen on sky poker, won a big pot (they were quite deep, it was an overbet by the KJ)

Anyway - bak to the point, thats an example of how the standard is sometimes shocking in all tournys, probably due to satellite qualifiers, rather than people buying in direct, but it will ALWAYS happen.

DOHH

ACESOVER8s

In a word NO. At all levels you will get Good Calls and Bad. I've seen Hellmuth make calls that simply SUCK but i wouldn't say he's a bad player

I'm not sure if the above is a bad call with AQ suited. As with all poker it's situational. The caller only has to beat you as he doesn't care about the 2k from the short stack. you only have 1 3rd of his chips and dependant on how you have played to this point he may have taken the view that you would do this with a range that his AQ is ahead of (not saying i agree but it's possible). The plays you have made prior to this hand would say more about this call than just this hand in itself.

The guy may have just fancied the gamble as he would have had plenty back but this type of thing does happen all over the levels

MrWh1te

Its quite standard too, he was looking to take you out their and then and had the stack to back it up.

pod1

i normally play 3-11 quid mtts, so you get used to a certain % of nutters on the tables, recently i have been playing in satellites to the bigger tournys ( with some success). on sunday i played some of the really small vagas satellites and it was horrendous , instead of "dodge the nutter" it was "find the poker player" never again!!! i agree your get loose play from loose players at all levels, but the % of players goes up for sure. watching 1 guy he played every hand for the first 40mins regardless of raise, calling all the way down with air ,and winning.big chip leader on our table so i checked him out out sc just incase i was miss reading him. nope 48 games -68% roi -$398 score 50. did go out after 50mins mind but took 5/6 people out first.

MAXALLY

Looks like a cooler there Mr Mohican sir. The one question you need to answer honestly to yourself is - would you of folded if you were in the villain's spot?. Thats the way I sometimes look at stuff but I am still learning the game and had a similar thing happen on me in a B/H where I had to lay down the best hand to a shove by a weaker hand that was beat anyway by the all in player!!. I really could not understand it at the time but people just keep saying 'variance' and 'thats just poker for you'.

I also witnessed your exit hand from the Luton SPT and I really did feel for you on that one matey.

Anyway, GL at the tables, play your A game and you will win in the long run as you are a good player!

Mohican

Had I been in the villains spot, it would have been an insta fold. Calling off a 1/3 of my chips with two all ins before me, not a good spot when I'm likely to be racing at best.
I think I'm gonna look at using my bankroll to qualify for some of the bigger buy-in tournaments. I've played the primo once(147/490) and Luton SPT(37/150) and never felt like I was playing above my level(did learn a few things though). I think I've reached the stage where I need to play better players to improve my game up to the next level.
 As for my exit hand at Luton, I've been crying on the inside ever since it happened!!lol

ACESOVER8s

In Response to Re: question:

Had I been in the villains spot, it would have been an insta fold. Calling off a 1/3 of my chips with two all ins before me, not a good spot when I'm likely to be racing at best. I think I'm gonna look at using my bankroll to qualify for some of the bigger buy-in tournaments. I've played the primo once(147/490) and Luton SPT(37/150) and never felt like I was playing above my level(did learn a few things though). I think I've reached the stage where I need to play better players to improve my game up to the next level.  As for my exit hand at Luton, I've been crying on the inside ever since it happened!!lol
Posted by Mohican

He is only going to consider this as 2 all ins if the short stack had more chips, with 2k against almost 18 he can forget the short stack and make his decision based soley on if he thinks his hand is ahead of your shoving range here. The villain here is playing for your chips not the short stacks. you push to isolate so he can easily see you as pushing a small pair or a dominated hand like AJ or A10 unless your known only to move in to isolate with kings, queens, Aces or AK. if he's happy enough to race with you then he can forget about the other all in as the side pot will be enough that he still clears a profit without winning the main pot

agboy

mate was this a bounty hunter tourney, cos in my experience u get this type of call very often from ppl searching for bountys, regardless if it effects there chances of cashing! i play mainly £5 bountys and they can be fairly profitable as u can take advantage of the nutters searching for bountys! gl mate and stick at it!

Mohican

I satellited into the primo,as I said i was gonna do. Hadn't been playing well when this happened.

player	Small blind		15.00	15.00	2841.25
player	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2030.00
	Your hole cards	K 8
villian	Call		30.00	75.00	1463.75
player	Fold
Mohican	Raise		90.00	165.00	835.00
player	Fold
player	Call		75.00	240.00	2766.25
player	Fold
villian	Call		60.00	300.00	1403.75
Flop
		9 7 K
player	Check
villian	Check
Mohican	All-in		835.00	1135.00	0.00
player	Fold
villian	Call		835.00	1970.00	568.75
villian	Show	10 J
Mohican	Show	K 8
Turn
		8
River
		5
villian	Win	Straight to the Jack	1970.00		2538.75

Post flop, a pot size bet is gonna leave me short stacked and pot committed so I shoved expecting to take it down. Villian calls and hits. I'm pretty sure they didn't have the odds. Is it a bad call? Am I gonna get calls like this in these premium tornaments or should I just want to get calls like this and take their chips most of the time?