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What should have happened here? (fao live experienced players)
A situation arose last night in a live game £30 freezeout, being fairly new to live poker I accepted decision but was wondering if it was correct.
We are 4 handed blinds 1000/2000/150 I am under the gun I raise with 10d 7d 3x (stealing blinds as we are all about equal stacks), the button calls raise, both blinds fold. flop comes down 10c 4s 8d. I Check Top Pair weak Kicker to button who min raises, this player is very good has won 6 figure sum in a major tournament and has played pro for a couple years.This player could be just making a move so I min re raise him to see if my 10 is any good.
At this point he anounces all in and pushes all his stack over the line and flips his cards over showing AA. I still have 45,000 chips at this point and his all in is about another 25,000 so i fold obviously he has shown aces so my 10 10 was not looking very strong although i do have extra outs ie the the 2 10s and 4 7s for 2 pair.The Question I need answering is as he has shown his cards should I haver been able to see the turn and river card as his bet is binding before I decide on my action.
I folded as I was not quite sure what the ruling was and the dealer/td had accepted the all in and the decision was mine wether to call or fold.
It turned out ok in the end as I actually went on to win.This was my first live MTT win following on from last weeks 3rd place finish took it down 4 £440 a good nights work.
We are 4 handed blinds 1000/2000/150 I am under the gun I raise with 10d 7d 3x (stealing blinds as we are all about equal stacks), the button calls raise, both blinds fold. flop comes down 10c 4s 8d. I Check Top Pair weak Kicker to button who min raises, this player is very good has won 6 figure sum in a major tournament and has played pro for a couple years.This player could be just making a move so I min re raise him to see if my 10 is any good.
At this point he anounces all in and pushes all his stack over the line and flips his cards over showing AA. I still have 45,000 chips at this point and his all in is about another 25,000 so i fold obviously he has shown aces so my 10 10 was not looking very strong although i do have extra outs ie the the 2 10s and 4 7s for 2 pair.The Question I need answering is as he has shown his cards should I haver been able to see the turn and river card as his bet is binding before I decide on my action.
I folded as I was not quite sure what the ruling was and the dealer/td had accepted the all in and the decision was mine wether to call or fold.
It turned out ok in the end as I actually went on to win.This was my first live MTT win following on from last weeks 3rd place finish took it down 4 £440 a good nights work.
Comments
Hi Spit, how's Bob these days?
We shared Tables the night before last on Sky Poker, & you asked me to answer this Question.
First up, you said.....
"....this player is very good has won 6 figure sum in a major tournament and has played pro for a couple years...."
I'm curious as to who it was - if you feel so inclined, PM me his name, please. There are plenty of well known angle-shooters in the Live game, & this may have been one of them.
about a idea i have ,
will you take a look and let me know what you think !
ty in advance !
Now, the answer to the main question, which was "should you have been allowed to see the turn & river after AA man exposed his hand before action had been completed"?
Incredibly, unbelievably, with poker being one of the world's biggest participation games, played for lots of money, there are still no standardised Rules. Much effort is being made to rectify this, particularly by APAT, but for now, "universal rules" do not exist.
However, in any well-run Venue, or one at which I was TD, the Ruling would be straightforward.
After the player exposed his hand, he cannot make ANY further "aggressive action" in the hand. In other words, he can check down, or he can call any bet from you, but he can NEVER bet again. After the hand is completed, he is then given a Time Penalty, (usually 20 or 30 minutes), or 1 or 2 Orbit penalty, during which he has to sit out. Further such transgression, even if not deemed deliberate, will result in his disqualification, & in some cases, he can be summarily shot.
Even if accidental, (which it sometimes is, due to stupidity & not paying attention) these sorts of dumbschmucks mess the game up, & so he or she must be punished.
Now, here's the thing.
An interesting dynamic occurs when YOUR hand remains face down, & Villain's hand is face up - the opportunity to bluff.
Think about it. You can SEE his cards - A-A (1 pair) in this case,. He cannot see YOUR cards. So if you bet out when you KNOW his hand, you MUST be winning, yes? And he cannot possibly call.
In fact, it's such a standard bluffing situation, that it always gets called. Almost always correctly, too.
The case you cited by AA man looks a pretty standard moody to me. The geezer wanted to kill any further action, as he was not sure where he was (in the hand), so exposed his hand deliberately. If he's won as much as you suggest, and is a regular Pro, he knows how many beans make five, & I'd be pretty certain he was angle-shooting.
mmmmmmmmmmm denis pmsl !