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Strategy help please

unknown_usernameunknown_username
edited April 2010 in The Poker Clinic
I the £750 GTD last night, down to last 11 players when I get this hand

Hand History #247130299 (23:30 01/04/2010)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
thereds247 Small blind   1000.00 1000.00 63079.96
luvBWFC Big blind   2000.00 3000.00 54473.41
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • A
     
FIELDY1978 Fold        
Direwolf Fold        
lewbob Fold        
eddo7705 Fold        
thereds247 Call   1000.00 4000.00 62079.96
luvBWFC Raise   8000.00 12000.00 46473.41
thereds247 Call   8000.00 20000.00 54079.96
Flop
   
  • 8
  • 8
  • Q
     
thereds247 Check

Now I think I am OK so far in raising my A 10 as the BB with only SB left in. It's after this point I  made a right ar*e of it. What would you do here?
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Comments

  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited April 2010
    Well the pots 20k, so you can't bet that with Ace high imo. I would probably bet 10k in this spot then see what answer you get.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010
    I would raise less pre flop, maybe to 5.5k total.

    That means there would be 11k in the pot on the flop, rather than 20k, so a 3/4 pot bet here, (15k) is more than a pot bet if you had controlled the size of the pot pre flop.

    If I'd played the hand, I would have invested 5.5k pre flop, and Fired a bet just under pot size (8/9k) on the flop.

    If I got resistance, I fold. Having lost 13k.

    As played, you have to c bet, the flop, as checking, will give him the green light to fire the turn. And you can't call. (Checking a made hand on this flop isnt a bad play)

    So with 20k in the pot, whats a proper bet? - Anything between 13.5k - 18k for maximum inpact, probably 15k is the bet, as you have plenty behind to recover. 

    If you meet resistance, again u have to fold, but this time will have lost 22k plus.


    So by just managing the pot size pre flop you could save yourself around 10k.

    I know you are just trying to kill the hand there and then, but if you think you have the edge on ur opponent, to go with your good hand heads up, and position in the hand, theres nothing wrong with keeping the pots smaller and playing down the streets. 

    DOHH
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  • DeuceAK_47DeuceAK_47
    edited April 2010

    I think Doh's raise size pre is better, (Unless he will call with all sorts of rubbish and play fit or fold after the flop, then i prefer your raise size.) But on the flop i have to agree with Dudeskin8 that half pot is plenty enough to take this pot down as it's pretty dry.
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  • NColleyNColley
    edited April 2010

    raised too much pre IMO, Dohx7s explaination is fine.

    15k is pretty much the max amount more u can put it after the flop and fold to resistance, if he just flats its danger even if your ace comes on the turn.

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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited April 2010
    WOWWWWW NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 

    Thats the worst thing you could do, giving up and just check-folding would be better than that! Maybe even open folding! lol

    He hasnt a small stack - in fact Ive just checked, he covers you....... ouch !!!






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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited April 2010
    Cheers guys - here's what actually happened
    luvBWFC All-in   46473.41 66473.41 0.00
    thereds247 Call   46473.41 112946.82 7606.55
    thereds247 Show
    • 9
    • 8
    		     
    luvBWFC Show
    • 10
    • A
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 6
    		     
    River
       
    • 5
    		     
    thereds247 Win Three 8s 112946.82   120553.37

    lessons learned - control pot size pre flop, making information cheaper post flop. With 20 K already in, any reasonable bet was 1/4 of my stack, and with the blinds advancing, i gambled everything on him not having hit, and that was me bust. Expensive lesson at that stage in the touenrament.
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  • pryce6pryce6
    edited April 2010
    Am I the only one who doesn't mind a shove?

    It's such a dry board it is much more likely that he has missed the flop. If I am villian here and you fire a C bet on that board I am shipping almost all of the time. If you shove first I can't call but if you put out a weak bet it's just asking to be raised.

    All the explanations are about how you can bet enough to get away from it, imo you play to win and it's such a vital stage of the tournament you have to take the pot if you raise that much pre flop (you want him to fold pre so I don't mind this raise as apposed to 5.5k)
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  • NColleyNColley
    edited April 2010
    Its not exactly a dry board, flush + gutshots are out there, and blind v blind its logical that he could have an 8 or Q...

    Dry board is sumthing like 2 6 10 rainbow..
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  • EyemanEyeman
    edited April 2010
    Calling an 4x BB raise with unsuited connectors is not a play I like. All in with A 10 is also no ideal - you only have A high after all.
    Part of me says you have 2 options. DOH's amount or the limp. (I know the limp will be slated, but A high is just that).
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