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Omaha: What Would You Do?

edited April 2010 in The Poker Clinic

i don't post much, but i love playing Omaha so ill put my opinion across. i like the pre flop play,  i like to keep the pot small(ish) pre flop. he might of re-popped you if you had re-raised pre flop, because he has played the hand strong. personally i wouldn't of bet into him, probably would of checked and called the raise. but if i played it your way then im getting my money in on the flop, maybe thinking he has me beat at the min. im thinking he has theses types of hands.. kkqa jjkq j1010k. ill go for the jjkq maybe with the spades aswell but you have a royal flush draw, how can you resist ? :) if you was just to call the flop i dont like the board pairing if it does i fold. but if it was a low hart/diamond im putting my money in, and if its a spade. if i had less b/b then you started then its allin pre or on the flop, but more b/b then i play the check call game till i have the nuts or feel good about it. hope it worked out for you

Comments

  • edited April 2010
    Following on from a similar idea from over in the Hold'em section, I'm going to dig out hands and situations which crop up while playing Omaha and see what your thoughts on the hand are. Here's my first example. Where possible, try to explain your thinking to each of your answers so we can stimulate some further critiquing, etc.

    The Villain in the hand (who is playing UTG) seems to be a relatively solid player but is a little guilty of playing their hands 'face-up'.

    Blinds are 10p/25p. To make it easier to read through, anything in red is an aggressive action - betting or raising, while our actions as the Hero are bolded.

    BTN: £25.20
    Hero (SB): £39.20
    BB: £25.00
    UTG: £54.37
    MP: £55.02
    CO: £1.77

    Pre Flop: (£0.35) We (Hero) are in the small blind with Ad-4h-As-Qs.
    UTG calls £0.25, 1 fold, CO calls £0.25,
    BTN raises to £1.35, Hero calls £1.25, 1 fold, UTG calls £1.10, 1 fold

    Firstly, what do we make of flat-calling here with AAQ4 single-suited? Are we better off re-raising or does that define
    our hand too much?

    Flop:
    (£4.55) Js 9s 6c
    (3 players)
    Hero bets £3.24, UTG raises to £14.05, BTN folds, Back to us...

    Here is the key moment. Do we shove all-in here with our pair of aces and nut-flush draw or should we call and re-evaluate on the turn? Which turn cards do we want to see and which ones are 'scare cards' for our hand, if any? Finally, both of us are playing pretty deep stacked here -
    should we play the hand any differently if we started with 100bbs?

    Over to you, poker fans...
  • edited April 2010
    Firstly, it's great to see a thread like this on this board.

    I assume that we're playing Pot limit here?

    I'm not really sure what you mean by saying that he is playing his cards "face up". Do you mean that he is only playing AAxx KKxx DS suited hands? I guess that you mean he is only betting his big hands?

    I'm happy with the call pre-flop. Like many others, I'm happy to try to control the pot size pre-flop.

    The bet out on the flop is interesting. Personally, I'd check here.
    His raise size is interesting too! If my maths is correct he could re-raise to 14.27 here so I'm not sure why he bet 22p short of pot.

    If he's a solid player then I wouldn't expect him to be raising pre-flop with JJxx, 99xx and 66xx hands (although there are obviously hands like KKJJ DS that qualify) so I don't see that we're behind to a flopped set here very often and, even if we are, we can hit our ace or our flush draw.
    As played, I'm shoving the lot in. I think that the pot is big enough to allow this at this stage.

    There aren't many cards that we're going to like on the turn. Any card that pairs the board potentially puts us in bad shape and he could also have a significant wrap (depending on his opening range) so any straightening card that doesn't complete our flush could be bad too.
  • edited April 2010
    As played, I'm coming back over the top because we've committed almost half our stack if we just call! What's the reasoning for betting into the raiser? I'm doing that to find out if my AA are good but also knowing I've got outs with my flush so I'm building the pot, in preparation to get the money in now if needs be - if you're going to bet/fold on the flop, then we might as well take "safe" option and check/call to try and catch our card? However aren't we then guilty of playing our hand face up like UTG? If we're raising with sets and calling with draws, I'd expect better players to pick us off so getting the money in now makes it harder for opponent to know the strength of my hand in the long term!

    For what it's worth, I don't mind the call with AAQ4 pre flop and if I'm 100BB deep, I'd probably check/call the flop to keep pot manageable - betting out on the flop gets us involved in bigger pot and tougher spot than our play pre flop suggests we wanted! Anyway that's my amateurish take on it...probably contradicted myself though!
  • edited April 2010
    simples

    my money is going in here and now

    the end
  • edited April 2010
    Preflop is fine. IMO you should only consider 3-betting AAxx preflop when:

    1. Your preflop 3-bet range is wide and you regularly do it (otherwise as you said your hand is basically face up).
    2. You can get a significant amount of your or the bettor's stack in preflop.




    Flop = repot. I don't think your going to run into a set more than 50% of the time and your 35% to hit your redraw if you do.  Your crushing the rest of his range which probably consists of a badly played AAxx, KKxx (2 spades) or some sort of random wrap + flush draw. Obviously its far easier to play this hand if you have an idea what type of hands villian would repot a raise with.
  • edited April 2010
    In Response to Re: Omaha: What Would You Do?:
    Firstly, it's great to see a thread like this on this board. I assume that we're playing Pot limit here? I'm not really sure what you mean by saying that he is playing his cards "face up". Do you mean that he is only playing AAxx KKxx DS suited hands? I guess that you mean he is only betting his big hands? I'm happy with the call pre-flop. Like many others, I'm happy to try to control the pot size pre-flop. The bet out on the flop is interesting. Personally, I'd check here. His raise size is interesting too! If my maths is correct he could re-raise to 14.27 here so I'm not sure why he bet 22p short of pot. If he's a solid player then I wouldn't expect him to be raising pre-flop with JJxx, 99xx and 66xx hands (although there are obviously hands like KKJJ DS that qualify) so I don't see that we're behind to a flopped set here very often and, even if we are, we can hit our ace or our flush draw. As played, I'm shoving the lot in. I think that the pot is big enough to allow this at this stage. There aren't many cards that we're going to like on the turn. Any card that pairs the board potentially puts us in bad shape and he could also have a significant wrap (depending on his opening range) so any straightening card that doesn't complete our flush could be bad too.
    Posted by MereNovice
    Glad to see you liked it, Mere!

    Yes, we're playing pot limit and when I say he's playing his hands 'face up', he's basically not being very deceptive  - his action tends to be pretty much in line with his hand strength. If he limps, he has a moderate hand. If he raises on the flop, he's made his hand, etc.

    Hope that helps and keep the chat going folks. I'll reveal what actually happened by tomorrow morning :)
  • edited April 2010

    Would had raised upto 4pound before the flop to push away any possible beaten hands,

    After flop and round of betting , would had slowed down here and just called, seeing as possible 2 pair on flop which could lead to FH on turn, my % seems to be at about 35% atm.

    After awaiting the turn , if no pairing board i push is a must,

    Yes there's a chance of being beat by trips or 2 pair but if turn card is a dead card pushing is the only way here.

    Question for all  = If turn is 6s , you check you Nut Flush as possible FH on table , you get pushed all in. Easy call if on final buy in or not?

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