When to see a flop, when to shove the lot?

Sky_Dave

Clinic,

OK, question for you and one which I want you all to answer as honestly as you can according to the way you play. Feel free to explain your logic if you like too.

Question: How short a short stack do you need before you shove all in preflop rather than calling a raise (or indeed just opening the pot with a raise) and taking a look at a flop?

Remember what we're trying to achieve in the Clinic here - we want people to give us their thoughts, comment constructively on those of others and hopefully some of the new members of the Sky Poker Community will learn and join us at the tables. Conclusion; keep it smart, keep it friendly

To get the ball rolling, here are my answers:

1) I will shove all in pre when I am less than 8BBs. I can't open raise or call for 3BBs here and then fold if outflopped, so I will just shove in those cases.

2) I would like to have at least 15BBs before I call an opening raise and try to make a hand on the flop. Of course it depends on position, hand strength and so on, but I won't be doing anything too extraordinary with less than 12BBs.

beaneh

In Response to When to see a flop, when to shove the lot?:

Clinic, OK, question for you and one which I want you all to answer as honestly as you can according to the way you play. Feel free to explain your logic if you like too. Question: How short a short stack do you need before you shove all in preflop rather than calling a raise (or indeed just opening the pot with a raise) and taking a look at a flop? Remember what we're trying to achieve in the Clinic here - we want people to give us their thoughts, comment constructively on those of others and hopefully some of the new members of the Sky Poker Community will learn and join us at the tables. Conclusion; keep it smart, keep it friendly To get the ball rolling, here are my answers: 1) I will shove all in pre when I am less than 8BBs. I can't open raise or call for 3BBs here and then fold if outflopped, so I will just shove in those cases. 2) I would like to have at least 15BBs before I call an opening raise and try to make a hand on the flop. Of course it depends on position, hand strength and so on, but I won't be doing anything too extraordinary with less than 12BBs.
Posted by Sky_Dave

I wouldn't be playing a flop unless limped to me in my big blind when I hold 20 bets or less.

Dudeskin8

For me it depends what tournement it is. In a dym for instance I obviously like to have more than 10 BB's but it isn't crucial 7-8 is perfectly ok to survive and then occasionally shoving for the blinds each round to keep your head above water.

In MTT's it's totally different as you need to finish higher to win more so 15-20 BB's is far more acceptable to shove with, but optimally re-shoving over weak raises and limpers.

Sky_Dave

In Response to Re: When to see a flop, when to shove the lot?:

For me it depends what tournement it is. In a dym for instance I obviously like to have more than 10 BB's but it isn't crucial 7-8 is perfectly ok to survive and then occasionally shoving for the blinds each round to keep your head above water. In MTT's it's totally different as you need to finish higher to win more so 15-20 BB's is far more acceptable to shove with, but optimally re-shoving over weak raises and limpers.
Posted by Dudeskin8

Very good point dudeskin, and one I was going to bring up in my next thought-provoking post to The Clinic about reshoving ranges and stack sizes

BlackFish3

When i go below 20BBs I will be looking for spots to shove pretty much.

Talon

  For me i would be looking at shoving when down to the 10BB mark.

 But there are other factors that need to be considered before moving all in.

 Whether we want a call, or just to steal the blinds.
 The style of tourny we are in, because in a speed or bounty hunter we are much more liable to be called.
 Chipstacks behind us, because a very large stack will call lighter than a medium.
 Looseness or tightness of players to follow.
 Our own table image, do we look desperate or tilty?
 The tourny time, if it is close to the bubble then i would not be shoving except with a premium.

  So although i would be looking to shove pretty much when in a good position with any 2 when down to 10BB i would also take these other factors into consideration.
 

Norbit

I like waiting till i have 2BB...its then a challenge to get the big blind to fold! LOL

Nah i agree with the majority, about 15-20bb i would be looking to shove.

yb

In Response to Re: When to see a flop, when to shove the lot?:

  The tourny time, if it is close to the bubble then i would not be shoving except with a premium.   So although i would be looking to shove pretty much when in a good position with any 2 when down to 10BB i would also take these other factors into consideration.  
Posted by Talon

This is when you should be shoving the most imo.

BlackFish3

In Response to Re: When to see a flop, when to shove the lot?:

In Response to Re: When to see a flop, when to shove the lot? : This is when you should be shoving the most imo.
Posted by yb

+1 going for the win... FTW!!

J-Hartigan

In Response to Re: When to see a flop, when to shove the lot?:

When i go below 20BBs I will be looking for spots to shove pretty much.
Posted by BlackFish3

Agreed.  With a 15-20bb stack, I'd be looking for opportunities to three-bet shove - especially if the initial raiser is a LAG with <50bbs.  With between 10-15bbs, I can open shove with a wide range (especially at a six-max table) because I have significant fold equity.  Once I drop below 10bbs, I'll pick my spots carefully.  But, if it's folded to me on the button or sb, I'm pretty much shipping with any two :-)