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Damsel In Destress Needs U

unknown_usernameunknown_username
edited May 2010 in The Poker Clinic
Anybody who knos me knos I play the deepstack most nights and I do very well, 80% of the time I make the final table but I cant seem 2 get past the bubble.
I have a few times but thats after ive downed several glasses of wine and then stopped shaking (and Im not joking)

Any CONSTRUCTIVE  ideas am getting 2 that stage where I give up poker?
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Comments

  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited May 2010
    Do you really make the FT 80% of the time?????

    I think it should be you giving me advice!!!! :)

    CanI add to the opening post?

    I want a "Penguins guide to going deep" ...in NLHE Tournys of course...

    6 simple steps to success...
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  • Mr_MiyagiMr_Miyagi
    edited May 2010

    I fold every hand unless it is AA


    but I am a coward, identify the players such as myself and steal them blinds.

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  • SpringsSprings
    edited May 2010
    The bubble is probably the hardest part of a poker game; I often find myself torn between getting too aggressive, or becoming too passive. Beating the bubble is all about finding the balance between these two styles.

    If, as you say, you are reaching the final table in 80% of the tournaments you play (which I have to say sounds PHENOMENALLY high!), then you clearly 'have game'. However, what sort of stack are you reaching the final table with? Do you sort of 'limp across the line' onto the FT, or are you getting there in good health?

    Aggression is clearly the optimal strategy, by bullying those who are waiting to cash ... lots of pre-flop raising, and C-Bets in position should get most hands through.

    But there is no sense in turning into a bull, thrashing into every pot, as you will eventually get looked up. As shown by the latest Vegan final.


    There are a LOT of articles published online about the bubble, which are readily accessible. I would link some, but I don't want to go against any T&Cs.


    Just as a last thought, if you really are final table-ing (wonder how that word is spelt?!) 80% of tournaments, but finding the bubble difficult, then maybe DYMs are worth a look at, as you are clearly able to outlast most opponents.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    Do you really make the FT 80% of the time????? I think it should be you giving me advice!!!! :) CanI add to the opening post? I want a "Penguins guide to going deep" ...in NLHE Tournys of course... 6 simple steps to success...
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Yes I do DOHHHHHHH

    Its only £2.30 game so lots of chancers/donks u just let em knock each other out.

    but I tend 2 have some sort of block when I get to FT and I start chancing a bit more as was told I play2 tight at the end but it never pans out 4 me and I just crash & burn.

    Im not joking here
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO
    edited May 2010
    blackfish is ur man
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  • BlackFish3BlackFish3
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    blackfish is ur man
    Posted by OMahonyO
    LOL i could never miss a fallen post!!

    You said something about letting the other players knock each other out fallen... are you perhaps not being aggressive enough and taking some of the chips being donked off by the weaker players and then finding yourself low on chips?

    Constructive really hurts... its just not in my nature!
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    Hi Fallen from what I saw tonight you played very well. What I tend to do around bubble time is make sure I'm not the short stack, this is important as it draws the focus on to the next shortest player and so the easiest target. Sometimes your not going to get any playable hands this is where position is very important, when it's folded round and your in small blind just push any 2 cards, chances are big blind will fold and you can breath for a little longer. Also if there is a shortie on the table be careful how aggressive you get incase he slips by you to cash. But overall from the play I've seen from you there isn't a whole lot to improve.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    TY Dude for ur advice.

    I dont kno what Im doing wrong even If I dont go into the FT short stacked I still tend 2 lose...my friend reckons it all in my head and I seem 2 have some kind of block.

    Am getting so upset by this now.

    Lisa x
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U : LOL i could never miss a fallen post!! You said something about letting the other players knock each other out fallen... are you perhaps not being aggressive enough and taking some of the chips being donked off by the weaker players and then finding yourself low on chips? Constructive really hurts... its just not in my nature!
    Posted by BlackFish3
    My hero Blackfish

    Wow didnt take u long 2 come 2 my rescue ... and nice aswall ....mayb ur r my knight in shining armour :)
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  • dav1964dav1964
    edited May 2010
    Hi fallen we sat with eachother yesterday on that 12 player sit and go and to be honest i did think you played 1 or 2 raggy hands imo.It is all about figuring out your oppos as quick as poss and getting there chips in your own stack if they are playing loose.Sure they will get lucky in some pots but the majority of the time you will beat them.BTW i won that tourny in the end.All the best dav xxx
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    Hi fallen we sat with eachother yesterday on that 12 player sit and go and to be honest i did think you played 1 or 2 raggy hands imo.It is all about figuring out your oppos as quick as poss and getting there chips in your own stack if they are playing loose.Sure they will get lucky in some pots but the majority of the time you will beat them.BTW i won that tourny in the end.All the best dav xxx
    Posted by dav1964

    Ah WD dav 4winning (and I did expect...cos i kno ur good)

    That why I play the deepies normally, its a much slower paced game and u have got room 2 make small mistakes (chip size & long blinds), and I do well but when I get on the FT paniac overtakes me and I get scared.

    I kno I have 2 overcome this.

    Lisa xx
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  • labrat64labrat64
    edited May 2010
    hi lisa, long time no see. Good to hear you doin good now. Your game must have improved loads lol. Anyway, final table time. Don't think of the bubble too much or it will set in your mind that you can't pop it. All you got to do is burst that bubble a couple of times and you'll be fine. As for hands, well you got to have a workable stack to play with, are you letting yourself be blinded down to around 6 or 7 BB. if so you got no fold equity and when you shove on that final table the big stacks are getting odds to call with marginal hands and they always seem to hit. Try to hit that final table with a bigger stack in relation to BB. Don't let your stack get too low to make a difference to how others play you. Be more aggressive a bit earlier, say when you get to around 15 - 17 BB in your stack, or in the third hour when the blinds start to rack up. All the best, Ian
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    hi lisa, long time no see. Good to hear you doin good now. Your game must have improved loads lol. Anyway, final table time. Don't think of the bubble too much or it will set in your mind that you can't pop it. All you got to do is burst that bubble a couple of times and you'll be fine. As for hands, well you got to have a workable stack to play with, are you letting yourself be blinded down to around 6 or 7 BB. if so you got no fold equity and when you shove on that final table the big stacks are getting odds to call with marginal hands and they always seem to hit. Try to hit that final table with a bigger stack in relation to BB. Don't let your stack get too low to make a difference to how others play you. Be more aggressive a bit earlier, say when you get to around 15 - 17 BB in your stack, or in the third hour when the blinds start to rack up. All the best, Ian
    Posted by labrat64
    TY Ian

    but ur cheeky...lol....my game improved loads...it was ok b4!!!!

    sad confession here but have been dreaming about the bubble lately...lmao.

    4 times in 1 week


    Lisa xx

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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    The bubble is probably the hardest part of a poker game; I often find myself torn between getting too aggressive, or becoming too passive. Beating the bubble is all about finding the balance between these two styles. If, as you say, you are reaching the final table in 80% of the tournaments you play (which I have to say sounds PHENOMENALLY high!), then you clearly 'have game'. However, what sort of stack are you reaching the final table with? Do you sort of 'limp across the line' onto the FT, or are you getting there in good health? Aggression is clearly the optimal strategy, by bullying those who are waiting to cash ... lots of pre-flop raising, and C-Bets in position should get most hands through. But there is no sense in turning into a bull, thrashing into every pot, as you will eventually get looked up. As shown by the latest Vegan final. There are a LOT of articles published online about the bubble, which are readily accessible. I would link some, but I don't want to go against any T&Cs. Just as a last thought, if you really are final table-ing (wonder how that word is spelt?!) 80% of tournaments, but finding the bubble difficult, then maybe DYMs are worth a look at, as you are clearly able to outlast most opponents.
    Posted by Springs
    TY Springs....noted......lisa x
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  • chew07chew07
    edited May 2010
    HI  lisa we play the same D/S games each night often on the same table .I have never noticed anything wrong with your play apart from the fact that when you do get anywhere near the bubble even with a big stack your game changes as if you are trying to prove a point .I thing you should just play your own game as you have up to this point, i know it is very easy for someone else to say forget the bubble but that is what you have got to do . Your overall game is more than good enough to win many tournys not just cash in them all you need is a bit of luck in running as we all do .Good luck in your next tourny and many others even if it means you beating me Mick xxxxxxxxx
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  • CowgomooCowgomoo
    edited May 2010
    I hate to be picky, but I respectfully disagree that you make 80% of final tables. I believe that to be impossible.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    I hate to be picky, but I respectfully disagree that you make 80% of final tables. I believe that to be impossible.
    Posted by Cowgomoo
    Yes u r extremly picky but around that yes.

    I play the D/S most nights and usually last 2/3 hours.

    constructive NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • charlyb8charlyb8
    edited May 2010
     
        Lisa hunni,ive known and played with you in most games over the last couple of years,and i know your a good player and confident to win most games you play.We all have what you would call bad runs and no one should know that better than me and it does knock your confidence,sometimes quite a lot and yes you do feel like packing it in,ive also felt that so i do understand how your feeling at the moment.As 1/2 players have said.you must get this out of your head,if you think bubble then your'll do it,so just clear your mind and think possitive,I AM GOING TO CASH.All good players go through this at some time or another and you are 1.so no more thinking of stopping,have a short break if you feel the need but dont stop because i know you love the game and i know you wouldnt be happy if you did.So chin up babe,Be a little more aggressive in the earlier stages and build that stack up.Go girl and start wipeing them out and no more of thinking about stopping,i'm behind you 100%.
                                     Chris xxxx
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  • SpringsSprings
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    I hate to be picky, but I respectfully disagree that you make 80% of final tables. I believe that to be impossible.
    Posted by Cowgomoo
    Heads-Up / SNGs??

    ;-)
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  • GaryQQQGaryQQQ
    edited May 2010
    In an MTT a tight game will get you through the early minefield most of the time, but as the closing stages approach you're gonna have to ramp up the aggresion sooner or later to stand any chance of hitting a big prize. Once the bubble has burst there's no time to sit around waiting for AA or KK, you're gonna have to pick your spots carefully and get all your chips in the middle or you'll just get blinded out. Clinging on for a min cash shouldn't be your goal here, you've got to have the confidence to take well timed risks that give you a shot at taking the tourney down, often you'll leave empty handed, but the occasions that it pays off will make it a profitable strategy in the long run. When you make a final table the huge difference between 1st and 6th prizes will justify risks you wouldn't have even considered in the first hour of the tournament

    If you look at the Sharkscope graph of a top MTT player it will look a bit like a series of steps, long periods of gradual losses get followed by a sudden big upward leap when that player takes another tourney down.

    Maybe take the time to find a good book on tournament play and keep reading it over and over until everything sinks in, Harrington on Hold 'Em, or similar. See the books thread for more info. When you've had a disappointing final table take the time to review the hand history and consider if you could have done anything better. Good luck.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    In an MTT a tight game will get you through the early minefield most of the time, but as the closing stages approach you're gonna have to ramp up the aggresion sooner or later to stand any chance of hitting a big prize. Once the bubble has burst there's no time to sit around waiting for AA or KK, you're gonna have to pick your spots carefully and get all your chips in the middle or you'll just get blinded out. Clinging on for a min cash shouldn't be your goal here, you've got to have the confidence to take well timed risks that give you a shot at taking the tourney down, often you'll leave empty handed, but the occasions that it pays off will make it a profitable strategy in the long run. When you make a final table the huge difference between 1st and 6th prizes will justify risks you wouldn't have even considered in the first hour of the tournament If you look at the Sharkscope graph of a top MTT player it will look a bit like a series of steps, long periods of gradual losses get followed by a sudden big upward leap when that player takes another tourney down. Maybe take the time to find a good book on tournament play and keep reading it over and over until everything sinks in, Harrington on Hold 'Em, or similar. See the books thread for more info. When you've had a disappointing final table take the time to review the hand history and consider if you could have done anything better. Good luck.
    Posted by GaryQQQ
    Ty 4 ur advice Gary...it is very well written and does make a lot of sense.
    I play on other site and have been told that Im a lot more aggressive there, which I am. I cant seem 2 move it over 2 sky, mayb being bubble girl(lots) has affected me a lot more then I realised.
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    Anybody who knos me knos I play the deepstack most nights and I do very well, 80% of the time I make the final table but I cant seem 2 get past the bubble. I have a few times but thats after ive downed several glasses of wine and then stopped shaking (and Im not joking) Any CONSTRUCTIVE  ideas am getting 2 that stage where I give up poker?
    Posted by xFALLENx
    Hi FALLEN,

    Am not a poker expert, and you have already recieved some excellent advice above,[garyQQQ & others], but.....
    I do consider myself to be an enthusiastic wine/poker expert.... and here is where I may be of help...

    It is obvious to me, given your final table results, [anything above 30-40% in that type of sml/med Deep-stack being good], that you do NOT have a POKER problem, but in fact a DRINK problem!!

    Two points, may seem contradictrary, but feel i can explain

    A, Firstly, quaffing large glasses of wine/alcohol & poker does not mix, anyone can tell you that!!!!

        Solution, rather than gulping mouthfuls of Chardonnay/Pinot after a bad beat or being put to a hard decision,
        try just a swirl & inhale & enjoy the aroma, of a say, Cru Chablis or Bordeaux Pauillac... then re-focus HARD!!

    B, Secondly, and conversley, you say after several glasses, when you have stopped shaking, you have got thro       the 'Bubble' and achieved results. As All poker questions can be answerer 'It Depends......'
        Can I ask, 'How big are the Glasses?
           &           'Is it only bubble time that you start shaking?

        Assuming the glasses are average, and it is only round the Bubble that the nerves appear, this backs up
    Garys theory! My translation of which is you may have been too tight throughout, reached bubble time too
    short maybe, & too regulary to add to discomfort, thus panicking and busting or blinding out!!

        The times you have progressed after several glasse suggests to me, that this volume has loosened you up, substantially, [still talking poker, sry], the freedom crushing your inhibitions, to give you a massive change of gear as it all kicks in!! The answer being to find this freedom without alcohol influence in a steady gear-change throughout the tourney....

       Solution, either start early with some Grand-Cru M eths from the local hard-ware store....and take your chances....
    Or take the quality route with maybe a bit more adventure & early gear change, for this I suggest an Argentinian Malbec, or spicy Australian Shiraz, white, go for a NZ Sauvignon[south island], or French Bordeaux!

    The Bubble thing is in your head, can't help you there as i bust out on the worst ever bubble in sky history LOL
    The drink thing is easy, as I come from a long line of Sheperds Bush Sc um, and now I'm posh have been awarded the official title 'Lord Feral Boy'

    Hope this helps, and must be taken seriously!!!

    p.s. nice legs, LOL
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    In Response to Damsel In Destress Needs U : Hi FALLEN, Am not a poker expert, and you have already recieved some excellent advice above,[garyQQQ & others], but..... I do consider myself to be an enthusiastic wine/poker expert.... and here is where I may be of help... It is obvious to be, given your final table results, [anything above 30-40% in that type of sml/med Deep-stack being good], that you do NOT have a POKER problem, but in fact a DRINK problem!! Two points, may seem contradictrary, but feel i can explain A, Firstly, quaffing large glasses of wine/alcohol & poker does not mix, anyone can tell you that!!!!     Solution rather than gulping mouthfuls of Chardonnay/Pinot after a bad beat or being put to a hard decision,     try just a swirl & inhale & enjoy the aroma, of a say, Cru Chablis or Bordeaux Pauillac... then re-focus HARD!! B, Secondly, and conversley, you say after several glasses, when you have stopped shaking, you have got thro       the 'Bubble' and achieved results. As All poker questions can be answerer 'It Depends......'     Can I ask, 'How big are the Glasses?        &           'Is it only bubble time that you start shaking?     Assuming the glasses are average, and it is only round the Bubble that the nerves appear, this backs up Garys theory! My translation of which is you may have been too tight throughout, reached bubble time too short maybe, & too regulary to add to discomfort, thus panicking and busting or blinding out!!     The times you have progressed after several glasse suggests to me, that this volume has loosened you up, substantially, [still talking poker, sry], the freedom crushing your inhibitions, to give you a massive change of gear as it all kicks in!! The answer being to find this freedom without alcohol influence in a steady gear-change throughout the tourney....    Solution, either start early with some Grand-Cru M eths from the local hard-ware store....and take your chances Or take the quality route with maybe a bit more adventure & early gear change, for this I suggest an Argentinian Malbec, or spicy Australian Shiraz, white, go for a NZ Sauvignon[south island], or French Bordeaux! The Bubble thing is in your head, can't help you there as i bust out on the worst ever bubble in sky history LOL The drink thing is easy, as I come from a long line of Sheperds Bush Sc um, and now I'm posh have been awarded the official title 'Lord Feral Boy' Hope this helps, and must be taken seriously!!! p.s. nice legs, LOL
    Posted by HITMAN_RV
    lol sorry its taken so long 2 reply have just managed to pick myself up from the floor (laughing NOT drunk)

    First may I say what a privilege it is 2 have advice from a player of ur calibre

    but

    OMG

    u make me sound like a right alcoholic...which I'm not!!!!!!!!!

    When it comes 2 drinking, I'm a lightweight .
    Its very weak wine and wont have more then 2 SMALL glasses (as my mind tends 2 wander :))
    But I think u may have a point in that when I do reach ft my hand does become more active.

    But its purely nerves and not the shakes (as I think u think)

    BTW EXCELLENT POST

    Lisa x
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  • HITMAN_RVHITMAN_RV
    edited May 2010
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U:
    In Response to Re: Damsel In Destress Needs U : lol sorry its taken so long 2 reply have just managed to pick myself up from the floor (laughing NOT drunk) First may I say what a privilege it is 2 have advice from a player of ur calibre but OMG u make me sound like a right alcoholic...which I'm not!!!!!!!!! When it comes 2 drinking, I'm a lightweight . Its very weak wine and wont have more then 2 SMALL glasses (as my mind tends 2 wander :)) But I think u may have a point in that when I do reach ft my hand does become more active. But its purely nerves and not the shakes (as I think u think) BTW EXCELLENT POST Lisa x
    Posted by xFALLENx
    LOL, anything I post is best blended with a pinch of salt, with a smidge of tongue in cheek!!

    You are a Good Sport, I wish you all the best in your crusade to burst The Bubble Girl Myth!!!

    Change gear early, lose the inhibitions, grease up for some action!!! [still poker]

    All the Best, The Hitman
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