Need help on this hand.

Wilhelm

I have no reads on opponent as I'm too busy reading some threads.  I want to know is my bet on the flop too big?  Does it commit me?  Should I call the turn for value or is the fold leaving myself with ten big blinds fine?  I think I've snookered myself.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
cooper1990	Small blind		50.00	50.00	6777.50
mimina24	Big blind		100.00	150.00	2210.00
	Your hole cards	A A
athens1969	Fold
puma100	Fold
Reen	Fold
Wilhelm	Raise		300.00	450.00	3075.00
cooper1990	Call		250.00	700.00	6527.50
mimina24	Fold
Flop
		10 9 Q
cooper1990	Bet		350.00	1050.00	6177.50
Wilhelm	Raise		1400.00	2450.00	1675.00
cooper1990	Call		1050.00	3500.00	5127.50
Turn
		J
cooper1990	All-in		5127.50	8627.50	0.00
Wilhelm	Fold
cooper1990	Muck
cooper1990	Win		8627.50		8627.50

Dudeskin8

I would just shove the flop myself, that board is so dangerous, the guy has 6k so wont fold for much but if he wants to call 3k on a draw good luck to him. By putting half your stack in you're pot commited but then the horror card comes so you have to make the fold.

beaneh

That's really gross, I think I would fold the (sorry meant turn) and look for a better spot on sky. UL.

robc

harsh got to fold turn probably only a king can save you. horrible though. im guessing this is a low stakes DYM  because of your bankroll challenge? if so im probably shoving the flop.

DeuceAK_47

fold river

Wilhelm

Actually this was a turbo MTT.  It seems unanimous that I made the correct fold, but I never thought of shoving the flop.  Surely I am only getting called by a better hand.  The up-side is that I can take the pot down there and then or get my money in as a good favourite against a draw if he really wants to gamble.  Interesting stuff.  But no-one thinks I was commited?  I mean, I was playing low-stakes, I don't think he is forced to have a straight.  I'm thinking now it could have been a hand like AQ.  Admittedly I am losing to KQ and Q8, but can anyone make a case for calling the turn?

offshoot

i would just call flop tbh

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

i would just call flop tbh
Posted by offshoot

Why?

offshoot

because against a lot of hands youre basically 50/50 like pair + straight draws or slightly behind if they have Q or J + flush draw. and youre already losing to made straights and 2 pair hands. If they have weaker hands than that then i dont mind letting them see the turn. No shame in not shovelling the chips in when youve got aces if it saves you from going broke.

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

because against a lot of hands youre basically 50/50 like pair + straight draws or slightly behind if they have Q or J + flush draw. and youre already losing to made straights and 2 pair hands. If they have weaker hands than that then i dont mind letting them see the turn. No shame in not shovelling the chips in when youve got aces if it saves you from going broke.
Posted by offshoot

Fair point.  What do you do on the turn if a blank comes?

ajs4385

Shove and cross your fingers, I dont mind calling although I doubt your post flop abilities are up to playing down the streets so just keep it simple and shove flop. (I really didnt want to sound patronising am just trying to be honest).

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

Shove and cross your fingers, I dont mind calling although I doubt your post flop abilities are up to playing down the streets so just keep it simple and shove flop. (I really didnt want to sound patronising am just trying to be honest).
Posted by ajs4385

For future reference, what am I giving off that suggests to you that my ability to play post-flop is inept?

mrrivaz05

jam the flop

ajs4385

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand. : For future reference, what am I giving off that suggests to you that my ability to play post-flop is inept?
Posted by Wilhelm

Because your playing some donkament, if you could play well post flop you would be playing 100nl cash games or higher  and making a nice amount every month.

People who are any good at poker 99% of time only play cash and only play donkaments for one of following resons, 1) a bit of fun 2) their getting free entry 3) they want to become a celebrity 4) like a fish they still arnt thinking enough about long term ev and just dreaming about first prize.

Reason is there is a lot of skill in poker when blinds are low to stack sizes, but when you OR your opponent has less than 15 bb there are a lot less decisions to make therefore less skill. Correct me if I am wrong but I have never seen a tourny that the last third of it isnt a complete cr ap shoot.

robc

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand. : Because your playing some donkament, if you could play well post flop you would be playing 100nl cash games or higher  and making a nice amount every month. People who are any good at poker 99% of time only play cash and only play donkaments for one of following resons, 1) a bit of fun 2) their getting free entry 3) they want to become a celebrity 4) like a fish they still arnt thinking enough about long term ev and just dreaming about first prize. Reason is there is a lot of skill in poker when blinds are low to stack sizes, but when you OR your opponent has less than 15 bb there are a lot less decisions to make therefore less skill. Correct me if I am wrong but I have never seen a tourny that the last third of it isnt a complete cr ap shoot.
Posted by ajs4385

Hard to play nl100 with a bankroll challenge of turning £1 into £100 

beaneh

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand. : Hard to play nl100 with a bankroll challenge of turning £1 into £100 
Posted by robc

Not on sky it's 10bb min sit down lol

And yeah I decided against writing out what AJS wrote. Also would you really be posting how to play aces on a co-ordinated board against a bunch of numpties if you really know what you were doing already?

ajs4385

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand. : Hard to play nl100 with a bankroll challenge of turning £1 into £100 
Posted by robc

Also if you where any good you wouldnt be pratting about with daft bankroll challenges. Before you say some big shot did it, (was it ferguson or negreanu cant remember). They got nothing better to do with their time as they have already got numerous millions in bank.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand. : Also if you where any good you wouldnt be pratting about with daft bankroll challenges. Before you say some big shot did it, (was it ferguson or negreanu cant remember). They got nothing better to do with their time as they have already got numerous millions in bank.
Posted by ajs4385

Considering Ferguson owns part of FTP, him taking 100$ to 10k$ or whatever he did, was probably the most pointless thing ever, everyone knew he was a nit who cant bluff and that he had nothing better to do lol. The money he earnt from ftp in the time the challenge took him was probably 7 figures loooool

robc

yeah point taken beaneh. but surely people post hands to improve and learn. so just saying shove it all in cross your fingers as your not good enough to do anything else is kind of a pointless comment and would of probably been better off not giving any advice at all? and also is it so wrong to do a bankroll challenge for some fun? not everyone plays poker for a living especially on sky!

beaneh

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

yeah point taken beaneh. but surely people post hands to improve and learn. so just saying shove it all in cross your fingers as your not good enough to do anything else is kind of a pointless comment and would of probably been better off not giving any advice at all? and also is it so wrong to do a bankroll challenge for some fun? not everyone plays poker for a living especially on sky!
Posted by robc

Sorry I was going to post to your OP in the thread then forgot and just fired a quick response off to ajs. 

People play poker for many different reasons, what that reason is doesn't matter. 

If you don't have a bankroll then it's a good idea to try and create one/run one up. My point about ferguson was that he could have lost his money in one hand and made more money in interest on his earning that he could ever make from a 100$ bankroll.  He's not a normal player!

I'll send you a pm about this hand later when I get a min. :-)

edit rob i'm talking bout your other thread with JsJx

Wilhelm

Note- At no point have I stated that I "know what I am doing already" or that I am "any good".  So I shall concede the point.  You guys know what you are talking about, I don't.  Big whoop.  Furthermore, it is not "pointless" for me to turn £1 into £10,000, as I do not have millions in the bank, so I don't know you keep referencing Chris Ferguson.  In any case, I thank you kindly for your advice, and wish you all the best in your endeavours.

Kind regards

Wilhelm

robc

cheers beaneh. The point i was making was to ajs original post i wasn't trying to start a argument with anyone just thought that post wasn't very constuctive imo. i hadn't actually seen your post on chris fergusons challenge at the time but i agree with what you said on that. 

Cheers for taking a look at my other thread mate :-)

beaneh

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

Note- At no point have I stated that I "know what I am doing already" or that I am "any good".  So I shall concede the point.  You guys know what you are talking about, I don't.  Big whoop.  Furthermore, it is not "pointless" for me to turn £1 into £10,000, as I do not have millions in the bank, so I don't know you keep referencing Chris Ferguson.  In any case, I thank you kindly for your advice, and wish you all the best in your endeavours. Kind regards Wilhelm
Posted by Wilhelm

Ah sorry what I said wasn't meant to sound condescending. I was only referring to Ferguson.

Tbh from most of your other posts (I remember the avatar I think) you normally post sensible thoughtful posts, therefore I was giving you more credit than most lol......

The reason AJ and I have taken this how shall I say, 'tone'. Is because we have aces and a draw heavy board, there are about a birrion hands he can have if he is slightly loose and alot of those will continue and be behind (but have equity) and sometimes we are behind and drawing dead etc etc. It's pretty obvious against a very tight player you can just bet and fold to a raise and against a looser player bet and get it in on the flop.  Most often the hands that people make the biggest mistakes with most regularly are hands that aren't aces or kings or a set on a drawy board etc etc. It's the 66% of the time that no one has anything on the flop and that you have to out play each other. Make sense?

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand. : Ah sorry what I said wasn't meant to sound condescending. I was only referring to Ferguson. Tbh from most of your other posts (I remember the avatar I think) you normally post sensible thoughtful posts, therefore I was giving you more credit than most lol...... The reason AJ and I have taken this how shall I say, 'tone'. Is because we have aces and a draw heavy board, there are about a birrion hands he can have if he is slightly loose and alot of those will continue and be behind (but have equity) and sometimes we are behind and drawing dead etc etc. It's pretty obvious against a very tight player you can just bet and fold to a raise and against a looser player bet and get it in on the flop.  Most often the hands that people make the biggest mistakes with most regularly are hands that aren't aces or kings or a set on a drawy board etc etc. It's the 66% of the time that no one has anything on the flop and that you have to out play each other. Make sense?
Posted by beaneh

Cool.

beaneh

Good. :-)

robc

hows your challenge going willhelm? last time i read you was on £11 i think.

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: Need help on this hand.:

hows your challenge going willhelm? last time i read you was on £11 i think.
Posted by robc

I don't think I've played since that 'til today.  Been busy.  Up to about £16 now and about to put in a marathon session to try and get back on track.

robc

fair play mate keep it up il keep a eye on your progress on the orford br thread :-)